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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

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Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.


See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.


1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

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Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
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Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
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Old one is auto-saging. Basic questions about /liberty/, socialist "gotchas" masquerading as basic questions, etc., go here. If you have a "what about ____" question you'd like to ask that you're really, really sure will stump everyone this time, do a quick look over this list: (http://archive.is/bbtHt) before you post–chances are, someone has asked that question before, and there's already an answer or answers available to you.

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I would think that goes without saying.


Ancap doesn't have a top-down legal monoculture, so obvioulsy different locales would have different solutions to the problem.

>The root question is, does your claim to your body end in death, and should it be considered a found item for anyone to claim?

I would rule that ownership of the body goes to either the chief executor in the will, or to the next of kin of none is named. If there isn't a way to establish ownership, like in your scenario, then it's considered unowned property and subject to the rules of emborderment. This changes of course if the true owner can be found, in which case he retakes custody of the body. For example, if the next of kin comes into the morgue the day after the organ-harvesting happens, and have proof that they are next of kin, they would retake ownership of the body, and the hospital would probably be obligated to give them monetary compensation for the lost organs if the next-of-kin asked for it.



I'm not an expert, but I think it depends on the local rules and laws of the territory that the body was found on.

Maybe he was found in a place that considers dead bodies no one's property by default, or maybe the property would belong to the family first and foremost.



why should the hospital give reparations?


I'm meaning to ask how it ought to be in a libertarian society



>I'm meaning to ask how it ought to be in a libertarian society

There isn't one correct answer here. If you don't want to get raped after death, try not to die on a necrophiliac's lawn, if you don't want to be cremated, try to not die in a Muslim neighbourhood.

Whoever finds your body will probably want to know what is stated in your will, because if they sell all your organs and the owner of the dead body will come to collect it, the person could sue you for damaging his property.



>why should the hospital give reparations?

Because it's the next-of-kin's property. Those organs belonged to him, and, although they did so in good faith, they gave away his property without permission. Since it's not practical or ethical to extract the organs out of the person in whom they ended up, providing monetary compensation for the lost property is a reasonable alternative.

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How stupid does someone have to be before they can be recognized as subhuman and thus undeserving of natural rights?

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Don't be jelly ;-)



Niggers are NOT Human. NOT mad in the Image of God. They are humanoid. Giving them Human Rights or treating them as Human is the start of the slippery slope that destroys Civilization.



Orangutans and dogs are economic actors then?



Um, yes they are, sweaty.

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tranhumanism thread

it is related to libertarianism because transhumanism gives freedom and liberty

so are you taking smart drugs or anything?

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Sometimes a bit of argument is entertaining even when it's in bad faith, and I haven't had a chance for a shitfling like this since my fedora-tipping days. And the revolving door of commies can get boring, it pays to have a little variety when it comes to spergs. Polite sage for offtopic.


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How do you equate memory and personality to the phenomenon of experience? The two former things are factual data, clearly distinct from consciousness itself. If you were to somehow lose every bit of memory and personality you would still be able to experience.

>one claiming there is an extra element to the brain, an element of mysticism and magic

I never once claimed that.

>To argue as if your claim has already been proven true

The claim that individuals are able to experience phenomena? I know empirically that that is true; I am experiencing phenomena right now. If you could explain to me how it is that the inert data of memory, personality, etc, are able to produce the phenomenon of experience, it would be greatly appreciated.


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People who are not quantum physicists should not use quantum physics to justify their arguments. Even people trained in the field, especially people trained in the field, should be wary of doing so, as they know the degree to which quantum theory is obtained through brute-force mathematics, with little conceptual basis behind the math. It isn't a subject anyone knows all that much about, in other words, so an amateur skimming the Wikipedia page of it, then making sweeping declarations about how the world works, is the most supreme arrogance. You know that picture of the ancapball reading a book titled "Basic Economics," and there's a commieball smugly smirking at him while reading a book titled "Advanced Economics" upside down?" The creator of that video is very much like the latter.

Specifically, the problem with this argument and others like it is the treatment of the act of observing as this mystical thing that must be treated differently from everything else; the reality is that it's a physical action like any other. To observe something, whether with a detector or the human eye, necessitates firing an EM wave at it to gather information, which bounces off the object being observed at your detector. An EM wave hitting something will interact with it, and because subatomic particles have so little mass, any EM waves that reflects off of them will have a major effect on either its position or trajectory (which one depends on the frequency of the wave). That's all it is, just a physical thing interacting with another physical thing, not a paradigm-shifting defeat of objective reality.

If you really want to challenge the materialists, you should stop playing by their rules. Reject scientism and blind empiricism, in favor of a priori arguments that hold true regardless of the evidence. By using these God of the gaps arguments, you make a tacit admission that the materialist or determinist position would be true, if only they had the proper data.



Dogs do, maybe marine mammals.

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>Zognald signs bill amnestying more slaves who will vote for more gibs which will give the government more control who will terrorize us even more and even more of our freedom and we're too stupid, lazy, and weak to actually fight back and just take all of this up the ass.


yeah, it has been over for a while now, don't worry. Just try to enjoy these last days and that's it.


day of lavos when



>day of lavos

sage negated

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I was reading through Patrick Little's (a NeetSoc who ran for Senate last year in California and got 1% of the vote) platform and I saw this

>Nationalize Google, Facebook, Twitter, and all other natural monopolies in the IT industry.

>natural monopolies such as Google, Facebook


Also this guy wants to give reparations to blacks LOL


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they're not monopolies and they're not natural either. All those companies received funds from the government in the order of hundreds of millions and they also get a pass when it comes to respecing the law.



> All those companies received funds from the government

source please




Even without the article >>98067 posted, and all the reports from 2016 onward about Facebook working directly with Merkel's government, just ask yourself: how are all these companies continuing to make money? A sizable portion of the population browses with adblocker extensions and cookie/tracker blockers such as Privacy Badger, meaning ad revenue has gone down to next to nothing for all these companies and cant' possibly sustain them at this size. Yet they're still surviving and thriving, and Google continues to list ad revenue as their primary source of profit, despite the proliferation of adblockers. So where's that money coming from, and why is it being reported on the books as ad money? The answer is that these companies sell their data in large quantities to alphabet soup, in effect having their growth be subsidized by federal agencies. And that's not even getting into FCC favoritism and regulatory capture.



And in answer to OP, yes, they are that retarded. What started as a partially self-aware exercise in contrarianism has been reduced to blind worship of a third-rate socialist with a funny mustache, whom they consider a hero for believing the same thing about Jews that most reasonable people alive at the time believed about Jews. Polite sage for doubleposting.

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Should people have to pay for water?

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>Should people have to pay for water?

"Should people have to pay for ____" always comes down to three simple questions.

1: Is the ____ you're taking somebody else's product?


2: Is the ____ you're taking a resource from somebody else's land?


3: Is the ____ you're taking a finite good that would be noticed if mysteriously missing?


If you want it without paying, ask nicely. People get shot over tampering with streams. Filling a canteen is a different story but the average "I don't wanna pay for stuff" kid probably isn't going hiking any time soon.


Nothing is free thus people can not have rights to free stuff.



Hmm. Water flunks two out of three and I don't believe in land.



i dont think it is very scarce



I think the better argument is that if it was very scarce then it DEFINITELY should require payment.

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Some AnCaps believe they can survive and live the Fallout dream? Why are they so disillusioned while others could possibly do it?



>Some AnCaps believe they can survive and live the Fallout dream? Why are they so disillusioned while others could possibly do it?

This is actually amazing, not only do you display a complete lack of understanding for what anarcho-capitalist arguments are, but you also display a severe lack of understanding for the English language as well. Bravo you fucking retard.


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Ancaps won't be taxed.

Ancaps won't get their guns taken away.

Ancaps won't be cucked to death by some great leader.

Ancaps will buy/enslave niggers to do all the fighting for them.

Ancaps will form evil corporations which will monopolize the wasteland.

Ancaps will build a welcoming home for the white man, but only if he is a high-IQ alpha male (not a commie/neet-soc).

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tell me the most redpill thing you know

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nah, too much have happened for it to become beyond a coincidence. Also you are probably one of them.

> prevent libertarians from rising up

People in government want to keep their jobs as well as justify their existence. You will do whatever it takes to keep your miserable but easy job with 100,000$ retirement funds.



>never attribute to malice that which is explained by stupidity

On the whole, I agree. However, when you see disparate groups of people all exhibiting the exact same kind of stupidity at the most opportune possible moments repeatedly, it's much more difficult to presume innocence.




>White Nationalism

lol wtf are whites a nation now?



It's not simply a co-inky-dink, all that anti-white SJW bullshit is one of many tools of statecraft being used to weaken and exploit a population. Firstly, it's easier to control low IQ niggers than whites, and secondly, it's easier to control someone who has been shamed and beaten down from birth (modern white men) than someone who is completely confident in himself and his abilities (white men of the past).



>People in government want to keep their jobs as well as justify their existence. You will do whatever it takes to keep your miserable but easy job with 100,000$ retirement funds.

This too. National-socialism is still socialism, it's more likely that governments would let neetsocs in or copy their policies (as they did after WW2), instead of letting libertarians get into power and erode credibility in the institution of government.

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The issues of Venezuela are mainly a crisis of capitalism on account of the nations economy being tied to one or two exports (Oil essentially) and when it went essentially so did the country

Venezuela never established a Socialist mode of production and the PSUV never claimed to be Marxist in any sort of way as far as I know

The issues if anything came from the PSUV mainly acting as SocialDemocratic vanguards of capitalism who refused to implement further socialist reform


A capitalist economy had a crisis who would have thought

That's not to say I don't support the Venezuelan goverment against this US regime change bullshit which I obviously do


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Did you even watch the video? It specifically states that when oil prices were down, of the top 16 oil-producing nations in the world, of which Venezuela is the 8th most dependent on oil, all of them saw profits EXCEPT Venezuela. Good job regurgitating commie talking points though, faggot.


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>The issues of Venezuela are mainly a crisis of capitalism on account of the nations economy being tied to one or two exports (Oil essentially) and when it went essentially so did the country

Not only is this completely incorrect, but somehow in some perverse way, you're telling me that massive expropriation of everything including even food production (Which is why they're starving to death in a country with an year round growing season, the same type of climate that allowed them to be the worlds #1 exporter of grain before Chavez took over) to farmland itself is a problem of Capitalism?

God damn, you are actually fucking dumb.

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Do you want to talk with other ancaps and bully minarchists someplace other than online, without roving /leftypol/ shitposters to disrupt everything? Would you like to do it with people who dress neatly and can string a sentence together? Of course you do! So why not get a collection of /liberty/ posters together to go to Mises University this summer? I went last year and I can say with certainty I had an excellent time, not just with the lectures but the chance to talk with people about various subjects relating to Austrian economics, natural law, and liberty. If you're a uni student, undergrad or graduate, you're basically guaranteed a scholarship, so if you get yourself there you won't have to pay for anything. Anyone up for it?

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>The Chinese and Vietnamese communist parties continue to lift hundreds of millions OUT of poverty so no.

After removing market barriers thus diverting away from their ideological doctrine.

>Cuba has the highest quality of life in the Western Hemisphere and has reached parity with the US in terms of infant mortality / Life expectancy etc years ago

Not independently verified.

>Imagine actually ignoring all history before the 1700s

There were free markets and voluntary private actors prior to the 18th Century.



tru dat



>Imagine actually ignoring all history before the 1700s

commie has a point. Altho what he puts instead is much worse and his head should be crushed for it. Real free market is the solution not imposing state enforced poverty.

Nobles made the concept of a chartered monopoly as well as central currency. It give the king's favorites a monopoly over certain fields and markets. It was made it illegal to create value on your own, outside of the corporation, so if you were a tradesman you had to work for the corporation. Around that same time is when clocks started to appear on towers, because now instead of people creating value for themselves they became employees and sold their labor. Because the way a corporation is structured (or the state structured it) its purpose becomes to produce returns in the short term to its investors, basically like giving back loans with interest. Its purpose becomes to convert value to shareholder cash. When u build a system on interest it requires growth, if you have to return more money than you own, it has to come from somewhere, either u take it from someone who goes bankrupt or you grow as a corporation. If you need to grow you need space and resource into which to expand. Historically speaking, that's what gave rise to all those mercantilist corporations of Europe. Because they have a growth mandate they go to the Americas or India or Africa and enslave and extract resources and value to fuel their growth. Corporations now technically function along the same rules.



>After removing market barriers thus diverting away from their ideological doctrine.

Having limited recognition of Private enterprise during lower phase communism (Socialism) does not conflict with Marxism nor Leninism

>There were free markets and voluntary private actors prior to the 18th Century.

Yes some did exist (Venetian republic / Netherlands etc) but to ignore the entire feudal system and the systems preceding even that is nonsense and ideological dishonesty


>"But if we got REAL free markets that match my ideologically definition everything would be rosy!"

I've already stated this (Many many times) in different threads but most of the "real" visions of capitalism proposed by /liberty/ have never existed in material reality and most of modern or in some cases (Anarchists-Capitalists) are simply impossible



> "real" visions of capitalism proposed by /liberty/ have never existed in material reality

BS. There is a book on what i am talking about, called "Throwing Rocks at the Google Bus by Douglas Rushkoff" check it out. If too lazy to read the book search for his articles or lectures on YT with that same name. There was that time in in late medeval europe where peasants started to trade with each other through the market place creating a peer to peer economy. They got so wealthy that they started building all those cathedrals because they didn't have savings vehicles. Ass middle class grows, upper classes wither. Nobles made the concept of a chartered monopoly as well as central currency. thats the rest of the story >>98043

Free market =/= capitalism. An economy is made up out of three factors of production: land, labour and capital. What my case states is that through a monopoly on violence (and central currency) the state give priority to capital instead of making the three equal.

It's about equalizing the three factors of production(also decentralizing the currency). Otherwise, you get disenfranchised workforce and polluted environment. Like we have now where 40% of American adults cannot pay for a 400$ emergency or 46% of Canadians are 200$ away from not being able to pay their bills and Richest 1% own half the world's wealth.

also socialism is state enforced poverty and a basically come back to feudalism.

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In ancapistan why wouldn't rich governments just buy all the land?

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>In ancapistan why wouldn't rich governments just buy all the land?

If they're doing so fairly, then they're paying you well enough to buy more land. Likely this isn't the case.

In a land GRAB, the historical habit of claythirsty governments and their cronies, the idea is to get people to "sell" the land for so cheap that they become tenants instead of owners from that moment forward. In other words, the government gains land it does not appropriately trade land for land.

That means coercion, that means aggression, that means McNuke™.



yup, they are pretty much inflating the bubble



>lose 90%+ of your troops

>declare victory

Truly the Pyrrhus of our time



>failed to even capture any significant territory

>what is the entire Republic of Ireland


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>opponent loses 99% of china

>they win

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greetings laddingtons

i want to read about s pinochet? what books can you recommend?

2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.



it does not


>i want to read about s pinochet? what books can you recommend?

Books about economics and private business instead. They'll serve you more once you're past the LARPing phase of your life.



>reading biographies is larping



Don't you know? Everything I don't like is LARPing.



>dude history is for, like, children

Is that how you justify your ignorance?

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Debate the intended message of this ad campaign, and why it's a positive step forward for society.

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>The whole point of abortionists is to keep women from discovering the magic god endowned them with.

>child abuse is not as bad as child murder




k i murder children now xd



What an insightful webm you've included with your post.


What an insightful post.


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>the magic god endowned them with

Seems he gave most other animals much better "magic".


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Holy shit, why are christcucks always the ones who take their ignorance up to eleven? That's like all leftist economics but honest and in good faith.

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