Richard Wolff takes on Jordan B. Peterson
>Prof. Wolff responds to Jordan Peterson's assertions about Marxism.
what a shyster looking kike
I'm pretty sure Peterson isn't Jewish.
Is Wolffman Waldorf or Statler?
The comments are already delivering
>Argentina is Socialist
do as I say, not as I do.
>Stalin did terrible things
What a cuck. Let this be a reminder that you can’t win debates against anti-coms by conceding to their arguments.
Yeah it's stupid to single out Stalin for problems in the USSR and concede it ever, especially when he gave himself the perfect set up out of it by essentially stating that Stalin is irrelevant and bringing up the Nazi analogy; whereby he could simultaneously state that even though Stalin didn't commit the horrors he's supposedly charged with; it doesn't matter in the same way that the 20 million Soviet Citizens that died in major part due to the Nazis doesn't matter either, it fits perfectly into his point and he isn't required to fall into any of the traps or gotchas that defending Stalin or the USSR has for a mainstream burger audience.
BRING BACK CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH
i remember when macri got elected and rightoids were all proud he was gonna fix argentina and rid it of its leftists.
A few years latter people are calling him a leftist becuase he's shit and the country got worse.
Gary Inmendham's refutation of JBP is much better, and doesn't take the wimpy "democratic socialist" route of conceding that the "Soviet Union was bad."
Relevant part: 23:50 - 52:24
Why do boomers FEEL THE NEED to EMPHASIZE every few WORDS with CAPS LOCK?
Waldorf as in beantown, then No.
Even Asserite tards like the Peronist have been forced out of goverment
It's economy is literally controlled by the IMF
That should be the line that would work, but these people literally believe the IMF is actually existing communism. It's the political and economic face of flat earth theory or dianetics. All those awful boomer memes you see on Facebook are completely sincere, whether they're GOP, Tories, or Brazilian PSL it's the same phenomenon. The internet being invented and spread as a commodity before the world socialist revolution may have actually doomed us all.
And why does he look a reject from Spinal Tap?
Holy fuck he's still around? Man I feel old…
Inmendham has probably gone insane after all these years, but knowing that he's still around and became a ☭TANKIE☭ is very promising.
>pseud argues with pseud
Wolff has degrees in his chosen subjects. Argument can definitely be made against his analysis and interpretation of Marx, but he’s no pseud. Compare that to Peterson, who has a less-than-layman’s understanding of almost anything he talks about that isn’t Jungian psychology, and even then he badly warps Jungian psychology into a sort of Volkisch ideology.
His hands look gigantic in this video
In what fucking universe. Probably one of the countries untouched by socialism
Socialism is when the government fucks up.
Big dick docsem energy famalam
to these people any government is "socialist" if the country is piss fucking poor. That's literally the only fuckin criteria. Fucking hell people call El Salvador, Liberia, Myanmar and Papua New Guinea "socialist", and their only reason for doing so is "but they poor yo. Nigga like they have no money like nigga that's socialism animal1984farm fam like nigga read lol"
>Papua New Guinea "socialist",
We (Aus) literally funded death squads to kill Left-Wing secessionists / Republicans in the countries north
Is he going to tell us again how capitalism has hit the fan due to debt? Is he going to imply capitalism has failed?
>Is he going to imply capitalism has failed?
<Implying it isnt
>"democratic socialist" route of conceding that the "Soviet Union was bad."
He doesn't do that, he specifically refers to Stalin.
Are you implying capitalism hasn’t failed? The economy is being held up by smoke and mirrors and relies on the unending optimism of investors putting money into unprofitable companies and stock buybacks. You figure that’s the foundation upon which an eternal capitalist regime will forever rest?
I thought he was going to engage jordan peterson in a debate.
This video is unimpressive.
>genocide against what? you think of yourself as a race now, you privileged fucks?
God I wish I lived in the same universe as these people
>I thought he was going to engage jordan peterson in a debate.
I hoped he would engage jordan peterson in thunderdome.
I'm ready for the Great Toothbrush War
Honestly, knowing these kind of people actually exist makes me lose hope for the future
Capitalism itself hasn't failed, it's been subverted and the new system which is a fake capitalism has failed. I agree the system as it stands now is broken in many ways but I don't agree that capitalism has failed.
I'd fucking pay to see either him, Zizek or Cockshott debate Peterson
did in 4 minutes what Xexizy could barely do in 30.
>not true Capitalism
Richard Wolff is a very smart person,
jordan B. peterson is and idiot, smart enough to seems smart for people who are even bigger idiots. This is why jordan peterson has bigger fallowing that Richard Wolff.
Are you referring to the Bougainville civil.war?
I see the NPCs have arrived
>Fake material conditions
>Fake commodity production
>It's all fake real capitalismus doesn't exist!
I don't even understand why I come on here anymore
>muh dih grease
jk I love Wolff. He talks about Marx in a way that people can actually understand and find appealing. That's more than can be said for any idiot who thinks you should start defending Stalin the first time you try to explain socialism to someone.
In the universe where Argentinians aren't white
Wolff hides his powerlevel because promoting socialism in the heart of imperialist lolbert land takes some skill. He's obviously not opposed to socialist planning, he had a whole lecture on why it works better than markets.
Stalin wasn’t perfect and we shouldn’t defend everything he did. That’s not denying he did many great things Engels has a quote somewhere that says something similar in relation to the Paris Commune
>third marxist so far
Who are the others? Did muke challenge him or something?
Douglas Lain, Zizek, RDW. Zero books made a series of videos on how Peterson fake-accepted the debate then chickened out.
Peterson is a fucking coward, he'll never debate an actual Marxist. His only shtick is to devolve the debate into the cultural war going on in the Weat, between radical liberalism and conservatism (clasical liberalism).
Don’t worry, it’s almost certainly a /pol/to or one of their fellow travelers.
This. People really need to cut Burgers some slack when it comes to this stuff. They live in one of the most reactionary countries in the world.
>if I don't pay taxes you throw me in jail, jackass!
Gulags aren't for those who break the law. Gulags are for those that oppose the regime. You know… like this retard is doing right now without going to jail. Jesus Christ, you'd have to be brain damaged to not see the difference immediately. He probably is.
Reminder that the right wing will call Trump a leftist once he's finished
I have literally stumbled upon right-wing pamphlets from the 80s where Reagan was accused of being a communist.
It's true though, neocons are trotskyites.
Almost every modern right-wing movement has turncoats in it. And Reagan wasn’t a neocon he just brought those psychopaths in from the cold and gave them a place in government.
>greentext because I'm mad but don't know what to say
Both ideologies have their pros and cons. I'm not 100% for any system. I'm for what I like and against what I don't. I don't let a group make my decisions.
So you're a standard liberal centrist.
>for those who know something about Marxism, listening to him is embarrassing
lol, he nailed it actually
Stalin did nothing wrong
don't worry, it is gonna turn everyone into NationalSocialists.
>I have literally stumbled upon right-wing pamphlets from the 80s where Reagan was accused of being a communist.
reagan getting called a communist wasn't because of the neocon trots meme, every POTUS since the fifties has had red bait thrown at them whenever they aren't literal protestant theocrats
>Wolff. He talks about Marx in a way that people can actually understand and find appealing.
Except Wolff talks about things people find appealing, not about Marx.
I don't even like Stalin lmao, and I have more critiques of the USSR as a whole than him, I'm saying that it's literally retarded to concede the anti-communist propaganda directed at stalin & the USSR when it isn't directly related to the topic at hand regardless of what your personal beliefs are when you're responding to someone like this because you're letting them set the agenda and legitimizing arguments that are not only outright lies but also deceitful and are use to further other anti-communist arguments. There are other ways to do so without accepting their terrain, all it really is a naive attempt at appearing more sympathetic to a potential audience for no gain. It's funny because Wolff has thrown a few similar critiques out there himself recently and he knows full well he could have made better arguments without even invoking Stalin, but he has to throw in the defense mechanism of "we're not like those other communists". He's very skilled at navigating the discourse in the hellhole of the US, and definitely skilled enough to swerve "muh Stalin" so I don't know why he capitulates to it.
Baby-hands Peterson vs Bearpaw Wolff
Peterson is a good phycologist, nothing else
no reason to take his politics serious
It’s only propaganda if it’s untrue. While Stalin’s crimes are laughably exaggerated by propaganda, he did still do some bad shit.
Peterson continued his whinging and declared himself to be above debating marxists.
He isn't even very good at what he actually is certified to talk about, his work has been heavily criticized by peers. Ironic, given how much less scrutiny he receives when he goes full Dunning-Kruger.
So the handlers would never let their assets enter in fights without approval.
Is this designed so that we reject socialism and its obvious benefits by labeling it all as one thing?
How can i support Not Socialism with you saying it is worse than capitalism
Wolff said that capitalism happened through trial and error.
I don't believe that to be the case.
Capitalism began in England naturally via the growing wealth of the merchant class.
I think he means politically. Capitalism evolved naturally sure, but liberalism as the political expression of capitalism was tried and failed many times (English Protectorate, French First Republic, Hanseatic League, etc).
I think he just points out that there were many attempts to set up something similar to the capitalist mode of production, but they failed since the conditions weren't there. Which is true. And personally it seems to me that England's development is kind of unique because it resisted total revolutionary upheavals, most countries couldn't reform themselves to bourgeois republics.
>that jewish new yorker accent
I thought so too but it doesn't mention him being a kike on wikipedia
I don’t know much about Jungian psychology, but I’m fairly sure it isn’t supposed to be the Volkisch bullshit he presents it as.
>Both ideologies have their pros and cons. I'm not 100% for any system.
But in practice, you live 100% under one specific system. Surely you can make conditions for the working class a bit "softer" by imposing social democratic measures, as opposed to full on neoliberalism, but it would still be capitalism. You have to make a choice.
Psychoanalysis gets fucking weird. No wonder the philosophy behind it is so prevalent in some of the humanities. And then there's Peterson presenting himself as the cure to post-modernism when he is himself a post-modernist.
It's interesting that Jung himself said that the Western man is empty, that in his attempt to get closer to Christ, the Western man has only decided to copy the outside and not the inside, and that is the reason he is spiritually poor.
While in the East they have managed to get closer to God/The essence/whatever.
And Plato used to denounce sophists when he was the biggest one himself, nothing new under the sun.
Plato was the prototypical idealist but he was also a dialectical thinker and resisted separating politics from theoretical philosophising. The historical development of Marxist philosophy has a lot to thank Plato, it's pretty cringy when people shit on him.
Hey I don't dispute we owe a lot to sophists, it's not because the term took a negative connotation nowaday- Plato himself have some responsability in this btw- that you should assume i'm mouthing the guy. It doesn't change the fact Plato was a sophist
Apologies, there was a guy in some other thread who kept calling Plato's writings total garbage and not worth reading, that triggers me a bit.
Pretty sure the English Civil War effectively constituted a bourgeois revolution. Even though the monarchy survived, it was extremely limited and real power was held by parliament.
I think it is roughly correct. I don't know what he means by trial and error exactly, but capital accumulation was running alongside feudalism at a certain point. Feudalism floundered and fought for power and conceded power to the growing capitalist market over time, but it wasn't as ideologically distinct as the fight between "socialism and capitalism" is these days. It took the form of things like feudal lords fighting to stop the expansion of freedom of movement to the peasants, or even trying to basically kidnap them into their holdings. The peasants attempting to achieve freedom of mobility and property were, unbeknownst to them, making themselves an asset to the nascent capitalist labor market. They just wanted to have more of the surplus produced on their own farms, and the ability to go wherever they pleased, but this was building the basis of capitalist labor markets and they really had little concept of what historical process was occurring.
Nazis have always latched onto Jung, though.
He essentially called Hitler the collective unconscious of millions of Germans.
They might have been communists.
>current year: 2022
>JBP proudly proclaims his willingness to debate marxists
>the League of Marxists Who Agreed to Debate Jordan Peterson and Then Got Ghosted (400 strong) quote tweets him every time
>JBP fans ardently maintain that the marxists are the ones who keep chickening out