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/leftpol/ - Left Politics

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File: e20acd6b36c4558⋯.jpg (83.53 KB, 512x512, 1:1, Capitalist[1].jpg)

 No.84641

Is there any known person from a bourgeois background who was a Marxist or revolutionary?

 No.84642

Idk, probably. Marx was a trust-fund kid.


 No.84644

Marx, Engels, and Lenin all came from families of the bourgeois and gentry.


 No.84646

Kropotkin was from an aristocratic family.


 No.84649

>>84644

Why though wouldn't it be against their interests as bourgeois members to support socialism? It is because they are alienated in Capitalist society?


 No.84650

>>84641

Virtually all 19th century thinkers and a good amount of the early 20th century figures did.


 No.84651

File: 61869592ac3cc92⋯.png (571.61 KB, 900x1200, 3:4, fhe4iazljr9z.png)

Countess Constance Markievicz

>born into wealth and privilege, became a socialist

>born into the nobility, became a republican

>born a prod, became a catholic

She grew up before women had the vote and by her death had become the first woman MP in the UK and (possibly? I've seen conflicting reports) the first female cabinet minister in the world. Funnily enough, Theresa May recently wanted to honour the first woman ever elected MP by hanging a portrait in the House of Commons, presumably not knowing that same woman had fought the British army.

She died penniless in a public ward after having spent all her money running soup kitchens. 300,000 lined the streets for her funeral.


 No.84653

>>84649

People aren't just slaves to their material interests, they can find fulfillment in something that goes against them. Which doesn't change the fact that most bourgeois won't actually support socialism of course.


 No.84654

File: fa6ba997de4fcfb⋯.jpg (33.7 KB, 425x416, 425:416, zhou enlai dabs on kruschc….jpg)

>>84641

zhou enlai


 No.84656

All of them up until 1920.


 No.84657

File: fcaf1c63b98294d⋯.jpg (43.71 KB, 600x592, 75:74, Spookbuster.jpg)

>>84653

>People aren't just slaves to their material interests.

Those people are what we call "idealists" also known as spooks. Self interest is the only thing that matters.


 No.84661

File: 040781a170b2abb⋯.jpg (103.4 KB, 1184x789, 1184:789, jps.jpg)

>>84651

>She died penniless in a public ward after having spent all her money running soup kitchens

One severe case of pathological altruism.


 No.84662

>>84657

>Marx was an idealist

steaming take

>stirnerposting

this is 2018


 No.84673

>>84641

Eagles was a straight up Porky

>>84649

It’s just random anomalies.

>>84651

>born a prod, became a catholic

That was a mistake, the Catholic Church is ultra-reactionary and a remnant of feudalism. That’s not even mentioning the rape that goes on in there.


 No.84688

>>84649

People can still make individual choices and all of them recognized that bourgs ultimately suffer too for choosing to retain capitalism.


 No.84689

>>84657

You're an idiot and that's not how Stirner's egoism works.

sage for doubleposting


 No.84690

>>84657

reality is a spook, kill your self out of own interest in not living the lie that your brain and subconcious create for you daily


 No.84725

>>84649

Impoverished nobility is a thing.


 No.84726

Some edgy rich kid who will be a porky like his daddy


 No.84735

>>84654

I agree, fuck corn man.


 No.84736

>>84657

I want to cum inside stirner


 No.84757

>>84689

Fuck off retard, there is no reason at all to be self sacrificing or "idealistic"

>>84690

I still have pleasures to experience in this life, so no thanks.


 No.84770

>>84757

Wrong.

“In the first place it's a simple matter to prove to Stirner that his egoistic man is bound to become communist out of sheer egoism. That's the way to answer the fellow. In the second place he must be told that in its egoism the human heart is of itself, from the very outset, unselfish and self-sacrificing, so that he finally ends up with what he is combating. These few platitudes will suffice to refute the one-sidedness. But we must also adopt such truth as there is in the principle. And it is certainly true that we must first make a cause our own, egoistic cause, before we can do anything to further it – and hence that in this sense, irrespective of any eventual material aspirations, we are communists out of egoism also, and it is out of egoism that we wish to be human beings, not mere individuals.”

-Friedrich Engels


 No.84828

>>84673

The conversion to Catholicism wasn't about the actual religion though. It was more about leaving the Protestant ruling class and showing she was completely ditching her roots.


 No.84846

>>84641

buddha


 No.84892

>>84657

Re-read Stirner fam. The core tenet of Egoism is the satisfaction of the ego, which can and ought to be carried out in whichever way the Ego deems fit. That means if you derives more satisfaction from altruism than from selfishness you are still an Egoist.


 No.85022

>>84661

Holy fuck does Peterson actually complain about pathological altruism?


 No.85031


 No.85033

File: 8700ae15423b36f⋯.png (157.13 KB, 640x797, 640:797, hmph.png)

>>85031

>3 hours of listening to Jordan Peterson

I've already cleaned my room plz tl;dw.


 No.85069

>>84757

Except if you decide that you want to.

If you're seriously placing anything above your own ego you are literally spooked.


 No.85070

File: a398643f9d5f441⋯.gif (53.63 KB, 800x800, 1:1, All according to plan.gif)

>>84641

me. but I'm petite bourgeois.

It happens sometimes when they get the reality that communism is inevitable they might as well push it forward & bring world history (politics) to it's end already.


 No.85121

Trotsky, most likely


 No.85122

>>85022

I hate altruism in general. nothing good comes out of being the "nice guy". mass murderers, serial killers, dictators, in one way or another become folk heroes.


 No.85124

>>85122

Altruism is based and exactly how Jesus lived. Just because they aren't as admired as mass murders etc. doesn't discount it as a valid path.


 No.85176

File: 417f0a85a572b7c⋯.jpg (74.06 KB, 395x395, 1:1, love.jpg)

>>85122

you don't understand altruism as a personal interest then. Let me guess friendless & a lonely misanthrope irl? sucks to be you hahah.


 No.85316

>>84649

They recognise that the proletariat is the universal class and that ultimately communism is in the best interests of all humanity


 No.85339

>>84649

Same way being a small business owner sucks and it would be better to be a worker in socialism. Same way being a plutocrat puts loads of pressure on you to be ruthless and keep your power. Being in any role in capitalism makes you do things you'd rather not.


 No.85404

>>84649

Their motivations were probably different in each case. I think Marx was too intelligent for his own good and simply despised most of bourgeois society. Engels could have his cake and eat it too since he benefited from his family's wealth while helping to fund Marx's work.

Lenin's case was different. I'm not sure how much his revolutionary activity was motivated by his brother's execution. That is, his older brother had been caught in a plot against the Tsar and, when offered clemency if he renounced his crimes and apologized, he said no. So they executed him. But Lenin likewise seemed to have an odd personality that was driven, for whatever reason, by some singular motivation to overthrow capitalism. There's an anecdote about how Lenin was taking a walk with someone and they came upon a beautiful view of a valley or something, and Lenin began to sigh and his companion thought Lenin was going to comment on the natural beauty of the place. But instead Lenin said, "WHAT ABSOLUTE GARBAGE THE MENSHEVIKS ARE SAYING ABOUT US!"


 No.85405

>>85404

the mensheviks were right tho

u have to develop the productive forces using capitalism before you can transition to socialism

t. dengist




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