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/leftpol/ - Left Politics

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File: 2b1da2fccef4aef⋯.png (1.07 MB, 460x1347, 460:1347, 1417100685468.png)

 No.82456

Are nonbinaries/genderqueers a distraction from class issues and therefore a threat to true anti-idpol leftism?

 No.82458

>>82456

Not inherently, unless you mean reactionary idpol by "anti-idpol" as some do. They're weird but most are workers and calling them by whatever pronoun they prefer takes negligent effort.


 No.82460

oh boy time for this thread again


 No.82467

>>82456

some argue that before we end worker struggle, we must work on lgbt+, race, women and such struggles so that these dont continue after the revolution and to unite the worker class and to free these people from their discrimination


 No.82468

>Are [identity group] a threat to anti-idpol

No. Scapegoating people based on identity is idpol and a distraction. This line of questioning is also concern troll shit. If somebody starts engaging in diversion from useful discourse that's the time to call them out as an individual. Not pre-emptively because they're different from you and therefore you worry they might raise identitarian issues.


 No.82477

There's a comic like this but in the last panel the tranny is crying and the guy is laughing.

Please gib.


 No.82478

>>82477

I remembered that from this board too. I don't even know which is the original because this one seems kind of aimless, like what's it trying to say.


 No.82482

Othering them is a lot more idpol than even outright pandering to them really.


 No.82483

File: b7e36bc49cb8a8f⋯.jpg (142.03 KB, 541x1600, 541:1600, 5d8.jpg)

File: e966dd93a780971⋯.jpg (65.83 KB, 640x795, 128:159, 79e.jpg)

File: 7cd2e5159c694fa⋯.jpg (160.44 KB, 546x1600, 273:800, 07f.jpg)

Oh ok so the OP one is an edit too but they fucked it up because she still looks smug at the end.

These made me laugh though (the Nazi one more at the author but regardless)


 No.82495

File: ecdc72127520798⋯.gif (820.06 KB, 275x207, 275:207, dr light nod.gif)

>>82456

Man this comic mades me sad, he woulda been a cute trap in that 3rd panel.

>>82483

Heh.


 No.82499

File: 1e71905ef51e974⋯.jpeg (12.79 KB, 197x256, 197:256, repost.jpeg)

>>82456

Fuck off


 No.82537

Well, not the people per se.


 No.82544

>>82495

I was actually thinking the same thing, he/she looks cuter in that panel… Maybe I'm just a degenerate.


 No.82571

Nonbinary/genderqueer is literally a made-up internet identity.

Also not this shit again.


 No.82578

Gender nonconformity is perfectly acceptable. Promoting 'gender identity' as if it's something equal or more important than class struggle is the bullshit. Gender needs to be abolished, not reified.


 No.82846

People claiming to be some magical gender like a table and demanding everyone else must use special words around them are engaged in terminal narcissism. Literally the only reason to demand people use special words for you is that your are an attention seeking cosplayer.


 No.82999

you mean made up bullshit, yes.


 No.83090

>>82456

>Are people a distraction from class issues?


 No.83093

gender is a made up concept, and if you "identify" as something other than your sex, you're just mentally ill and that's pretty much it. it has nothing to do with class issues.


 No.83256

no, they make sense, intersectionalism is superior to marxism


 No.83258

>>83256

weak b8 you have to try harder


 No.83268

>>83258

look up critical theory you pleb


 No.83271

>>82456

What HRT gives you those hips?


 No.83275

File: 3a6975f94f62e3d⋯.png (176.37 KB, 1200x897, 400:299, yourbrainonfeminism.png)

File: 5e5a1da6b2b8c50⋯.png (104.74 KB, 1194x882, 199:147, yourbrainonidpol.png)

>>83268

no thanks


 No.83276

>>83275

I bet you follow "realpeerreview" on twitter, incel


 No.83278

>>83256

a large part of intersectionality is injecting class analysis back into academic discourse, which had been dominated by a focus on identity from around the 1970s to the late 2000s


 No.83299

Yes, next question.


 No.83303

>>83276

>Gets shown proof of brain rot caused by intersectionality

>starts blathering on about muh incelsss

Typical feminist nigger. Back to >>>/reddit/


 No.83344

>Are nonbinaries/genderqueers a distraction from class issues

No, they are an actual person.


 No.83395

File: faa785fe27ba2fd⋯.jpg (99.75 KB, 640x348, 160:87, jimmy sadowitz.jpg)

>>83344

>People cannot be distracting


 No.84126

>>82846

No one has claimed these ridiculous genders and special words.

It's a reactionary fantasy that people's gender identities are made up to feel special.


 No.84155

File: e5f9876502d39b8⋯.png (66.2 KB, 286x400, 143:200, gender_identities_are_made….png)

>>84126

Why do SJWs like yourself persist in telling such easily debunked lies? It's like you're secretly recruiting for /pol/ or something…


 No.84215

When mental illness crosses over into identity politics, and that crosses over into politics, it is a threat to leftism.


 No.84217

>>84215

shut up you're stupid


 No.84227

>>84217

t. butthurt tranny


 No.84233

>>84217

>no u


 No.84296

>>82456

not really, just a repressed group of people who find out they have a right to exist and so explode into the mainstream. once this issues are normalized the workforce will be even more united, effective and solidary. The ones who are making this process even slower are those who are antirevolutionary. btw i dont get why the hate. even if you dont belive these genders exist why dont you let leave this people like they want its not like it affects anybody


 No.84300

File: b806ec61f0e26ea⋯.jpg (80.6 KB, 739x518, 739:518, b806ec61f0e26ea29ec667448f….jpg)

File: 345b4ce9f2fc3bb⋯.jpg (83.03 KB, 765x488, 765:488, 345b4ce9f2fc3bb79b2887505c….jpg)

File: 53c97eb09150420⋯.png (118.39 KB, 1195x1655, 239:331, 53c97eb091504202523e15de71….png)

File: 0418cf4b1ad0186⋯.jpeg (309.25 KB, 1424x1100, 356:275, 526f590c9cf0e18e0e780b5ac….jpeg)

>>84296

>mental illness ever getting normalized

>why do u guize even cares? it doesn't affects anythinz


 No.84301

>>84296

>the workforce will be even more united, effective and solidary.

>its not like it affects anybody

Pick one.


 No.84310

>>84301

what i meant is that it doesnt affect those who react to them in a negative way, but it truly affects the people that are being opressed just for being something that annoys some butthurt socially repressed edgy teens such as this dude >>84300


 No.84314

File: d132b9c7295bc28⋯.jpg (203.36 KB, 1560x930, 52:31, bernieBLM.jpg)

File: 2b1027eee7a9c2e⋯.jpg (197.65 KB, 960x961, 960:961, 2b1027eee7a9c2ea7a29cc6a56….jpg)

>>84310

>post examples of how idpol legitimately ruined OWS and OT and how it can ruin leftist organizations

<u-u just an edgy r-repressed teem, won't anyonez think about the poor oppressed peopulz?

LMAO


 No.84316

>>84310

>I want to cosplay as a sofa. Not playing along is oppression!

No. Go away, narcissist. You are not special. You are same decaying organic matter as everything else.


 No.84318

>>84300

judging by your posts you belive that idpol leftists are some kind of spies trying to deorganize the far left. theres no much more things needed to be said, you are just a paranoid asshole on the level of those who belive that leftist media is controlled opposition. And about the comments on the protests, we cant confirm the witness of the first photo is speaking truth or its just a butthurt conservative like you are, but even if it is true those white man geniuses could have just talked their way through with those people if theirs was truly their plans, at least a vast group of people woul've agreed with them with some way and could have carried out their proposals. The dude dont even says what their plans were. The second photo tries to get the blame of the rapes and assaults to the idpol gang, but it only proves how the "white dudes" who leaved only worsen the protest. Third pic, the witness cant be verified, but i suspect its a larper with the same kind of grandpa views on idpol such as you. He really sets it up very nicely. It lets us get personal with the free library and the librarian, its structured very well to make the reader feel the emotions that the writer intends to. Maybe its true, dont get me wrong, and assuming it is, its a big injustice. However these actions cant be blamed upon the whole idpol movement. What a bunch of bad feminist do is not something every idpol approver will identify to. about the arguing in the protest, if he felt like it was going off topic and anyone is allowed to speak, he had a point to say, he could have said "this is not what we came here for" and by that rule anyone involved in the conversation. People such as you are so obsessed with this shit that you take it even more seriously than idpols, so that if something like in that debate happens, you only contribute to the shitposting by making your grandpapoint in reaction to feminists and such. at the end of the day, assuming all this was true, i agree with the guy, it was a very bad action by the feminists, but again assuming every feminist or idpol is like that is really stupid and the only purpose of those believes is to elevate you intellectually above them, so that you can best them. you are just an inmature edgy teen, such as sargon and all those shitheads on youtube and twitter.


 No.84319

>>84314

LMAO you are not even making arguments, you are just posting memes trying to disqualify my words and persona to maintain your ego, like every socially repressed edgy teen would do


 No.84321

>>84316

not an argument either, just comical devalue of my points in orther to lie yourself in being right. another pathetic edgy teen who doesnt know how to debate properly. You cant feel what those people are feeling, you cant just say that their statements are irracional just because you feel so. Maybe yall pieces of reactionary garbage are right, and a lot of these people are just looking for attention, but i think is worth it to try help people who are genuinely feeling different from the established genders, and who we are to judge that? The vast majority of the issues bringed in >>84300 werent systematic in the "idpol ideology" (assuming the witnesses are true) but rather from the immaturity of those who fail to organize. someone who is pro idpol and its also mature and able to organize wouldn't have said or do those thing described in the photos. Dont be like that when some idpol accuses you of being a white man like its some kind of insult just think a bit, we all know thats bullshit, but the dude who said so doesnt, so try put some sense into the kid instead of going into leftypol and talking shit to every idpol dude because of that one kid. You are just like them, but instead of accusing of white privileged and victimizing minorities, you accuse of idpol faggot and victimize the white male, yall sound the same.


 No.84322

>>84321

>people who are genuinely feeling different from the established genders

This is the crux of the issue you idpozzed faggot. They FEEL different. Doesn't mean they actually are. You're born with either a pee pee or a cum dumpster and that's your fucking gender right there. Stop putting your fee fees over reality.


 No.84333

>>84319

>legit examples of how idpol disrupts organizations

>t-that's just memes dude

Come on mister CIA you can do better than that.

>>84318

TL;DR LOL


 No.84336

I'm pro transpeople and all that but genderqueer and all those made up tumblr genders are just ridiculous tbh


 No.84337

>>84322

its not that simple, and science is backing it up, since gender and sex are not the same psychologically and but even if you dont belive in that shit, just stay aside its not like youll die if onde dude say hes a sofa or not

>TL;DR


 No.84341

>>84333

>TL;DR LOL

>CIA

what are you fucking stupid? like i said in the end of one of my posts you are just like sargon you seem to not know how to fucking read.


 No.84355

>>84337

>Obvious psychosis doesn't harm you! You should be compelled to play along! If you disagree you're the same as all these hate figures! You need to refuted my position with logical arguments, even after I admitted it is completely irrational myself!

No, you don't need debate. What you need is the help of qualified medical personnel and strong drugs.


 No.84358

Somewhat, but there is no true chance for leftism so Idpol is at least something


 No.84399

>>84333

>three (3) unverifiable anonymous internet posts

>legitimate examples of anything

Pick one and only one.

>>84355

>>84322

>ur either one or the other it’s just science lulz

>muh genitalia

>obvious psychosis

So first, psychologists will tell you that biological sex is separate from gender. But let’s go with your totally informed theory that it’s all just crazy delusions. Tell me anon, do you know what the recommended treatment is? I’ll give you a hint, it starts with t and ends with ransition, part of which involves getting the people around them to affirm their identity as whatever gender they’re transitioning to. So by your own logic you should indulge every transgender person in calling them by the appropriate pronouns, since that’s what the medical professionals say is the best way to treat their issues.


 No.84428

File: 62f051d37692d58⋯.jpg (284.05 KB, 800x1132, 200:283, x5VP6LJ.jpg)


 No.84430

>>84428

>replies with straight up /pol/ image

Thanks for dropping the act fake anarchist friend.


 No.84446

>>84399

>So first, psychologists will tell you that biological sex is separate from gender. But let’s go with your totally informed theory that it’s all just crazy delusions.

Oh?

<Judith Butler critiques the sex/gender distinction on two grounds. She critiques gender realism with her normativity argument (1999 [original 1990], chapter 1); she also holds that the sex/gender distinction is unintelligible

Sauce: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-gender/


 No.84454

>>84322

No, whether they feel with one role or another, a summer's dress, a business suit, this toy or that, is what (absence of) role or action they do.

There are three sexes - male, female, infertile. Matches goo, need not match parts. And yes, after I kick you in the nuts you will be the same sex as your grandmother.

(tfw talking to an idiot so pozzed they think the spooks, "soy" if you will, will make their parts disappear if they don't behave. no. and no.)


 No.84458

>>84454

>Adherence or otherwise to psychosocial stereotypes should be the determining factor, not physiology!

No. Please proceed to explain how my dick is literally Hitler for failing to engorge when shown trannies, though. It should be a good education for the rest of the board in exactly how insane your cult is.


 No.84459

>>82456

Obviously


 No.84465

>>84458

>Please proceed to explain how my dick is literally Hitler for failing to engorge when shown trannies, though.

Not god damn related to anything. Congrats on establishing that you think of your dick in relation to trannies enough to just blurt shit out at random.

> It should be a good education for the rest of the board in exactly how insane your cult is.

…says the person who thinks their genitals (almost sex, but not quite) will fall off if they pick the wrong piece of cloth (gender).

It's ENTIRELY a psychosocial construct with no reality. Sex is fucking goo cells under a microscope, not even parts.


 No.84477

>>84446

Bold move citing Butler, you don't seem to understand her thinking at all. Butler is my compatriot, who when asked in an interview if she agreed with the famous TERF Sheila Jeffreys, replied:

"I have never agreed with Sheila Jeffreys or Janice Raymond, and for many years have been on quite the contrasting side of feminist debates. She appoints herself to the position of judge, and she offers a kind of feminist policing of trans lives and trans choices. I oppose this kind of prescriptivism, which seems me to aspire to a kind of feminist tyranny.

If she makes use of social construction as a theory to support her view, she very badly misunderstands its terms. In her view, a trans person is “constructed” by a medical discourse and therefore is the victim of a social construct. But this idea of social constructs does not acknowledge that all of us, as bodies, are in the active position of figuring out how to live with and against the constructions – or norms – that help to form us. We form ourselves within the vocabularies that we did not choose, and sometimes we have to reject those vocabularies, or actively develop new ones. For instance, gender assignment is a “construction” and yet many genderqueer and trans people refuse those assignments in part or in full. That refusal opens the way for a more radical form of self-determination, one that happens in solidarity with others who are undergoing a similar struggle.

One problem with that view of social construction is that it suggests that what trans people feel about what their gender is, and should be, is itself “constructed” and, therefore, not real. And then the feminist police comes along to expose the construction and dispute a trans person’s sense of their lived reality. I oppose this use of social construction absolutely, and consider it to be a false, misleading, and oppressive use of the theory."

Sauce: https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2009-judith-butler-on-gender-and-the-trans-experience-one-should-be-free-to-determine-the-course-of-one-s-gendered-life

Butler's argument is that sex and gender are both socially constructed. She is not some biological determinist hack like you, she is simply even more radical than me.


 No.84628

>>84477

This is funny. I point out that dogmatic social constructionists such as yourself are insisting that there's a link between sex and gender by quoting Butler and get this piece of extensive apologetics and strawmanning in response. You've decided to self-contradict by moving from "sex and gender are completely separate and unrelated" here: >>84399 to conceding that actually perhaps there is a relationship after all.

I suggest you look at your fellow social constructionist in >>84465 and consider the insanity you're supporting. That person is resolute in their insistence "woman" is social construction. A psychosocial stereotype that anyone who is "woman" must conform with, just as the far-right insist. My position is that "man" and "woman" are physiological states. Even the trans movement, for all their bullshit about "social construction", tacitly admit this with their demands for hormones and surgery. Women don't have penises.


 No.84633

>>84477

>Butler's argument is that sex and gender are both socially constructed.

Gender clearly is, but sex is real and comes from people’s genetics.

>>84477

>She is not some biological determinist hack like you

Sometimes biological determinism is right, especially when dealing with stuff like Biology.


 No.84635

>>84477

> sex is socially constructed.

> biological determinism hack

Holy shit please stop


 No.84636

>>82468

This

How neck deep into idpol do you need to be to ask whether an identity group is a problem and then simultaneously claim that you're "anti-idpol". Tbh people like this are just /pol/ tier edgelords who want to use "anti-idpol" as a justification for their reactionary social ideas without even understanding what idpol means.


 No.84637

>>84636

Nazis are an identity group…


 No.84638

File: 3a3e01ff03c221c⋯.png (183.02 KB, 500x714, 250:357, tumblr_mwgxur4t051rduento1….png)


 No.84777

>>84628

>insistence "woman" is social construction.

Purse, pantsrack, AND what you make believe when you look at their junk.

>Women don't have penises.

If it drops an ovum, yes it does.

Your great/grandmother is factually NOT a woman.

> social constructionist

Yes.

You are.


 No.84778

>>84638

based


 No.84783

>>84628

>You've decided to self-contradict by moving from sex and gender are completely separate and unrelated

Not a position I ever took, I did take the position that they're separate as distinct things, a position that I haven't abandoned.

>to conceding that actually perhaps there is a relationship after all

No. That is Butler's position, but her position is based in her view that sex itself is also socially constructed. This is what the lengthy quote (and even lengthier interview) demonstrate, that Butler is not saying 'sex and gender are not different, ur born with benis or vaginey and that is whad u are :DDDD', Butler is saying that since sex is also a social construct (in her view, since clearly if I don't say that you'll idiotically assume I 100% agree) there is no really distinguishing feature between it and the social construct (again, Butler's view) of gender.

>>84633

>>84635

bottomlesspit.png


 No.84812

>>84637

But one with a specific political connotation, and a dangerous one at that. Not some apolitical identity like black/white, queer or whatever.


 No.84833

>>84812

>queer

>apolitical

Pick one.


 No.84834

>>84833

I'm male, what political ideology does that mean I associate with?


 No.84836

>>84834

No idea, given that "male" is a descriptive category rather than something cooked up by a political movement to advance their ideas by screaming """oppression"""


 No.84866

>>84428

At least post sources dumbfuck.


 No.84895

>>84783

> Butler is saying that since sex is also a social construct (in her view, since clearly if I don't say that you'll idiotically assume I 100% agree) there is no really distinguishing feature between it and the social construct (again, Butler's view) of gender.

Sex is a biological term not a social construct, you retarted radlib.


 No.84900

File: 6fe8fe0ac5c641a⋯.jpeg (107.45 KB, 992x880, 62:55, B3DD58D4-FC61-45F6-86E4-F….jpeg)

>>84895

Me: I don’t share this view but this person thinks this

You: CAN’T YOU SEE X IS WRONG YOU RADLIB




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