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/leftpol/ - Left Politics

Winner of the 80rd Attention-Hungry Games
/otter/ - Otter For Your Soul

THE INFINITY CUP IS COMING BACK
May 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: 822380b0fe53547⋯.gif (143.41 KB, 624x678, 104:113, voting machines vs slots.gif)

File: 80b8e38ea30d0e0⋯.png (142.19 KB, 678x414, 113:69, voting systems comparison.png)

File: a2646237bc7b9b3⋯.png (21.46 KB, 561x556, 561:556, duvergerslaw.png)

 No.142963

There are quite a lot of obstacles to getting genuine leftists elected to office in some places. Media blackouts to absurd ballot access laws to election fraud to voter suppression to systems that inherently generate two-party rule to outright banning of leftist political parties. At some point a Leftist needs to ask whether they should be putting time and energy at all into electoral politics when there are workplaces to organize. What should be the purpose of electoral organizing? When is it worth it to organize electorally, and what form should that strategy take?

 No.142965

I have always thought electoral organizing is useful 1) to put ideas into the public debate in a way that is much harder to do through other venues, and 2) to expose the system when it fails. The question I've never really been able to answer in all my time organizing is what exactly "exposing the system upon failure" really means and when it justifies the effort put into it.


 No.142966

participate in local elections. Sign up for either party or a 3rd party in the US, or whatever your equivalent is in other countries.


 No.142996

File: 14b4d7615e760e8⋯.gif (160.99 KB, 950x640, 95:64, play_with_a_full_deck_b.gif)

>>142963

>At some point a Leftist needs to ask whether they should be putting time and energy at all into electoral politics when there are workplaces to organize.

No, not really. First, because the activities involved in electoralism are largely shared with any other activism and direct action. Second, because the amount of resources needed to engage in electoralism (especially for common rank-and-file, phonebanking and doorknocking at the most) are piddling.

The idea that parliamentary electoralism (and other sorts of reformism aimed at changing regulatory norms in legally explicit ways, such as lawsuits, letter writing campaigns, and marches) is mutually exclusive with direct action and dual power, or even with revolutionary insurrectionism, is an absurd ahistorical fiction promulgated by myopic LARPers. What matters is results, not ideological purity.


 No.143007

>>142963

>>142996

Electoralism does historically complement worker's organization, the problem is that in our current time the latter doesn't exist, so the former is made irrelevant. Socialist parties easily capitulate to the bourgeoisie when they don't have an organized working class to relate to and keep them on-course. Something like the eight hour day was won through the actions of millions of militant, organized workers that states were forced to capitulate to. Now such organization no longer exists, so even if someone like Bernie Sanders gets elected and tries to push for Medicare for All, it'll get squashed or coopted by capital since American workers aren't organized to defend whatever reforms get proposed.

The problem isn't that electoralism siphons time and energy from organization, but that organization and the question of how to build dual power is so thorny and scary that leftists default to running for office precisely because it is easier. What we really need now are public, high-level discussion on how to fucking organize and build robust working class power under contemporary and future capitalism - particularly because traditional unions and mass street action/protesting have shown themselves in recent decades to be dead ends.


 No.143008

File: e2fc8108294eaed⋯.png (61.68 KB, 400x338, 200:169, ecb3a9ab5558d5a353bfdf1a6c….png)

>electoralism

Stop. The state will never be a unitary issue and the history of electoralism has been a sordid failure that inevitably embraces management of capitalism. Organize your workplace or neighborhood instead of spending tens or hundreds of hours trying to get a socdem into power.

>>142965

1) Is moot because we have a significant portion of the population that doesn't pay any attention to elections and even less to any candidate approaching our ideas. More likely pic related happens, and instead of radicals you get people who think socialism is when the government does stuff.

2) doesn't mean much because a lot of us know shit is fucked and don't need to see a socdem get fucked or fuck up to have that revealed.


 No.143009

File: 0e703f31d94037e⋯.jpeg (207.63 KB, 2048x1257, 2048:1257, D431BVeWAAAHHgf.jpeg)

>>143008

>More likely pic related happens

Wrong one, but I guess it works too.


 No.143012

>>142996

>counter culture

>full deck

Pic needs an edit.


 No.143037

File: 071cc74ad4cec4c⋯.gif (9.89 KB, 398x538, 199:269, unions.gif)

File: 5a863f3fb471442⋯.gif (11.75 KB, 491x282, 491:282, unionp3.gif)

File: 7e0f7bbf4bc68b3⋯.png (29.46 KB, 900x600, 3:2, public and private unions.png)

>>143007

Given that unionization has historically ebbed and flowed in response to various external factors, perhaps there are lessons to be learned from the past about things we could do to the labor market and its regulatory restrictions via electoralism that would make meaningful labor organization easier.


 No.143131

>>143037

fisrt one looks like Burger/Canuck border near East Coast


 No.143135

The biggest obstacle to getting genuine leftists in office is LARPers/cranks/radlibs hanging around leftist orgs. Nobody knows what they are voting for.


 No.143144

>>142963

Bourgeois elections are a farce, that's why I vote for the funny orange clown that makes me laugh




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