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/leftpol/ - Left Politics

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File: aef530f84cc931e⋯.jpg (121.39 KB, 933x702, 311:234, whywhatpurpose.jpg)

 No.133292

>"ur not really a leftist, ur not involved with any left wing orgs!!!!!!!!!"

>america

>good left wing organizations

lol

 No.133294

Leftist =/= "left wing"


 No.133295

File: 0bcc633506edc62⋯.jpeg (184.72 KB, 1124x1404, 281:351, Dw--mqNWsAUjS8b.jpeg)

At least no one can claim that you're not a real faggot.


 No.133297

>>133292

>Having opinions and labeling myself is what politics is

Get this idpol shit out of here.


 No.133301

>>133294

>>133297

I just get told a lot that im not a "real leftist" because i wont join any american organizations. Im tired of it because if there were an actual good one that wasn't liberal or Cointel, i'd join it.


 No.133303

OP, time for you to start seeing yourself as an agent of the working class, not as someone who must feel super duper revolutionary all the time.

Join DSA, do what you can to radicalize them, don't be a fucking bitch purity spiraling the world into destruction.

I've met so many people like you, refusing to organize because no movement perfectly fits your obscure mongolian throatsinging tactics. Get your head out of your ass. Do something. Stop trying to be the mostest revolutionary. Otherwise, yeah, you're not a communist. Or you might aswell not be.


 No.133305

File: c93e547ff991de0⋯.png (1.41 MB, 752x1063, 752:1063, ClipboardImage.png)

>>133301

Start with your community then. Find the workers and talk to them about the material conditions. You don't have to organize, but not you should try to agitate and/or educate.

Shit, just asking retail workers if they are in a union is at least better than nothing.

>>133303

>DSA

Legit waste of time/money/energy.


 No.133307

>>133305

>Legit waste of time/money/energy.

Of course it is, everything is a waste of time if you just want to virtue signal about how nothing is revolutionary enough for you.


 No.133308

>>133307

>>133305

Isn't DSA cointel?


 No.133310

>>133308

That's what cointelpro wants you to believe.


 No.133312

>>133308

For real though, I'm sure there are cops in DSA, but there's going to be cops in any org larger than you and your five buddies.

If all they have to do to discourage people from organizing is put a cop in each org, then we already lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHPA0HzmjQ


 No.133314

>>133310

>tankie is a sucdem shilling DSA

bordiga was right


 No.133315

>>133314

Well, tankies are succdems essentially in terms of their ideology.


 No.133318

File: c4300032bb3f5f6⋯.jpg (1.56 MB, 4205x3249, 4205:3249, sleep tight trotty.jpg)

>>133314

>trot discouraging people from organizing

Stalin was right.


 No.133319

>>133307

I thought MLs hated DSA and fuck with PSL, WWP, or that podcast party?

>>133318

That's a leftcom, the trot flag is a 4.


 No.133320


 No.133323

>>133319

>I thought MLs hated DSA and fuck with PSL, WWP, or that podcast party?

ML no longer really has any connotations towards practical organization, at least not in the first world, it mostly means you wont bend to radlibs calling Stalin an evil anti-communist/red fascist.

Going to post this Marx quote again

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch04.htm

"The Communists fight for the attainment of the immediate aims, for the enforcement of the momentary interests of the working class; but in the movement of the present, they also represent and take care of the future of that movement. In France, the Communists ally with the Social-Democrats(1) against the conservative and radical bourgeoisie, reserving, however, the right to take up a critical position in regard to phases and illusions traditionally handed down from the great Revolution.

In Switzerland, they support the Radicals, without losing sight of the fact that this party consists of antagonistic elements, partly of Democratic Socialists, in the French sense, partly of radical bourgeois.

In Poland, they support the party that insists on an agrarian revolution as the prime condition for national emancipation, that party which fomented the insurrection of Cracow in 1846.

In Germany, they fight with the bourgeoisie whenever it acts in a revolutionary way, against the absolute monarchy, the feudal squirearchy, and the petty bourgeoisie.

But they never cease, for a single instant, to instill into the working class the clearest possible recognition of the hostile antagonism between bourgeoisie and proletariat, in order that the German workers may straightway use, as so many weapons against the bourgeoisie, the social and political conditions that the bourgeoisie must necessarily introduce along with its supremacy, and in order that, after the fall of the reactionary classes in Germany, the fight against the bourgeoisie itself may immediately begin."


 No.133326

>>133323

>ML no longer really has any connotations towards practical organization

I listed 3 ML parties in burgerland that self-professed burger MLs belong to or support instead of DSA, which they seem to almost uniformly hate. If these supposed ML orgs aren't practical then that says something about the burger ML milieu putting idealism (in the sense of conforming to ideas and ideology) ahead of the real conditions of burgerland and the burger proles.

>marx quote

This doesn't mean joining organizations, if we're to look at Marx's praxis it supports "supporting progressive forces" but organizing in separate organizations. I'd go so far as to contest the relevance of such a strategy in our present circumstances, which has seen the bourgeoisie and capital achieve supremacy. There's quite a few reasons to join the DSA, if in a dissident caucus like CC or LSC, but Marx saying that opportunistic alliances are ok in the 19th century seems to be a poor justification.


 No.133334

>>133326

>I listed 3 ML parties in burgerland that self-professed burger MLs belong to or support instead of DSA, which they seem to almost uniformly hate.

Where did you list them? And yeah you should also be organizing with communist parties, but shrugging off DSA, a brand new left wing born in a country that hasn't had a left wing for many decades, is silly IMO. DSA is where communists should be recruiting from, it's the only mainstream place we can talk about communism without being seen as insane.

>If these supposed ML orgs aren't practical then that says something about the burger ML milieu putting idealism (in the sense of conforming to ideas and ideology) ahead of the real conditions of burgerland and the burger proles.

Sounds about right. I'm not American, and where I'm from all communist parties "send" their votes in presidential elections to the radical socdems.

>This doesn't mean joining organizations

Maybe not, but it does mean organizing with them in some manner.

>I'd go so far as to contest the relevance of such a strategy in our present circumstances, which has seen the bourgeoisie and capital achieve supremacy.

I don't understand why. It's not like DSA is made up of radical bourgeoisie.

Honestly I don't know, I just cringe so hard at supposed left wingers refusing to organize where the radicals are.


 No.133337

File: 82bb80ebfefd2d2⋯.jpg (100.3 KB, 1692x1252, 423:313, 82b.jpg)

>>133334

>Where did you list them?

>>133319

<PSL, WWP, or that podcast party

>And yeah you should also be organizing with communist parties, but shrugging off DSA, a brand new left wing born in a country that hasn't had a left wing for many decades, is silly IMO.

DSA has been around for decades fam, and I think the socdems will cause a split when they make endorsing Bernie mandatory. I'm more interested in the resurgence of labor action, which seems to be drawing in more actually radical people than podcast fans who will stan for AOC.

>DSA is where communists should be recruiting from, it's the only mainstream place we can talk about communism without being seen as insane

Communists, by which I'm going to group everyone from anarchists to orthodox marxists, should be recruiting from the working class, while the DSA contains this it also contains (petit)bourgeoisie activists and there are a massive amount of proletarians outside of any organization.

>Sounds about right. I'm not American

Around here self-professed MLs don't play well with other ML orgs, let alone other radicalized orgs. If you're not in their specfic sect then you're more likely to get badjacketed than you are getting support in organizational efforts outside of protests against reactionary dumbos.

>Maybe not, but it does mean organizing with them in some manner.

Which frankly I disagree with in our current circumstances. The history of that in burgerland is cheering on the democrats who turn around and stan all the worst aspects of capitalism such as austerity and imperialism. Much better to organize among our class, which has not realized itself and is divided, than to support left bourgeois institutions like radical democratic candidates.

>I don't understand why

With the bourgeoisie ascendant there isn't much reason to critically support them against their enemies, to draw from your quote we are in the stage where "the fight against the bourgeoisie itself may immediately begin" and have been for some time. I'd go as far as to argue Marx was wrong regarding "in order that the German workers may straightway use, as so many weapons against the bourgeoisie, the social and political conditions that the bourgeoisie must necessarily introduce along with its supremacy", in that the bourgeoisie has been able to strip away the advantages of such conditions where they are not of use to the proletariat any longer while maintaining capitalism.

>I just cringe so hard at supposed left wingers refusing to organize where the radicals are.

I agree, it was a fucking travesty that in the recent tennant and labor organizing only the IWW, DSA Communist Caucus, DSA Libertarian Socialist Caucus, and Black Rose Anarchist Federation had any involvement beyond cheering from social media, and outside of IWW organizing fast food workers said involvement was marginal. We need to be involved in class struggle where it exists instead of crying about no perfect organization on an obscure site known for pedophilia, white nationalism, and misogyny.


 No.133366

>>133364

DSA is the "cops are comrades" one.


 No.133374

>>133320

yes.

>also

>totally not AS.


 No.133403

You’re not a real leftist unless you lick the boots of women and brown people all day and ramble incomprehensibly in some arcane Marxist babble from your armchair all day


 No.133426

>>133417

>organizing is liberalism

No wonder communism is dead, you fucking faggot.


 No.133434

>>133426

Find me a good left wing org in America like the ones europe has and we will happily join it.


 No.133439

>>133403

What if you do the opposite but remain armchair and like Karl Marx?


 No.133442

>>133434

Don't care if there are no perfect orgs, join one and make it better or make one or shut the fuck up, pseudo-revolutionary.


 No.133445

most politicians cuck here and become a succdem, so if Yang Gang wins, I'm funneling that money into my own campaign.


 No.133457

>>133442

>organizing is revolutionary

No wonder communism is dead, you fucking faggot.


 No.133462

im not in any orgs but I keyed a mercedes today


 No.133463

>>133457

This has to be a shitpost.


 No.133493

>>133303

>>133426

>>133442

>seeing yourself as an agent of the working class

<while engaging in entryism in declassed activist parties in an attempt to "radicalize" them

Your mindset is wrong from the outset. Contrary to what you might think, it's not the question of ideological purity. You approach this issue as a bourgie ideologue, ie. you aim to radicalise people you consider being politically close, whereas for communists it should be question of acting as "the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others." Thus for us the most basic terrain of action isn't an ideological terrain of conservatives vs libs vs socdems vs whatever, but the classist terrain where workers attempt to enforce demands based on common economic interests.

>>133323

>quote

In those cases it's the question of supporting the most revolutionary bourgeois elements against broadly speaking feudal classes which were still in power or were threatening to return to power, as well as against the more conservative bourgeoisie willing to bend over to the former, like the haute bourgeoisie in France(refer to Class Struggles in France).

This approach outlived its usefulness in much of Europe by later half of XIXth century, since by then the feudal classes have been all but eliminated and so the risk of feudal counter-revolution. However, the view that Marx established "support of the most progressive capitalist elements" as something that was to be applied anywhere and anytime was in fact used as a justification for union sacrée and Burgfriedenspolitik since

>it is our prerogative to defend our homeland against the reactionary forces from Germany/Russia!

Since pre-capitalist elements have been completely driven to extinction, this part has generally become moot unless you perhaps live in Kongo. As it is now, the political alliances with capitalist groups, socdems or otherwise, are of no benefit.

>>133462

Based.


 No.133519

>>133493

Maybe Jacques Camette was right and we should be Congo all over?


 No.136037

>>133292

This is actually true. This argument is mostly used by intersectionalists and idpolers.


 No.137142

leftists claiming there are no good left wing organizations is kinda like one of those kids that claim they were born in the wrong generation and nobody makes good music

usually because if you're unsatisfied with your org you can form a new one


 No.137143

>>133493

read sorel nigger


 No.137350

>>133318

implying Stalin was ever a labor organizer, read a book or go back to /r/fullcommunism.


 No.137352

>>137143

not an argument, nigger.


 No.138801

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.138972

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.139161

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.139695

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.139711

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES




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