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/leftpol/ - Left Politics

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File: 314aaf4b134d50b⋯.jpeg (245.03 KB, 1200x922, 600:461, DibO8nXVAAAlOFw.jpeg)

 No.111111

This board needs to read more, and something besides a low traffic sticky is needed. To this end I think we need to revive the /leftpol/ reading group, this time without titofag being the only guy who read anything. We can start off with some basic texts of anarchism and marxism, then move on to more specfic stuff.

 No.111118

>>111111

AND SO IT WAS, BY THE POWER OF QUINTS

in hindsight, What is Property was not the best of books to pick as the second one, considering its long, arduous and not very relevant to us due to its liberal-idealist perspective. interesting in its own way, though.

if that one person who wanted my notes is still around, I'm sorry to tell that it's going to take a long long while for me to finish, prob early next year at the earliest sorry

maybe some entry-level book on anarchism would be a good place to start this time.


 No.111119

How about Bakunin?


 No.111121

I nominate The Ego and It's Own, since we have so many people misusing the term "spook."


 No.111128

File: 8a800caba1b57be⋯.png (399.9 KB, 1262x1295, 1262:1295, 8a800caba1b57bebe9da647434….png)

>>111118

Didn't even notice it was a get.

>in hindsight, What is Property was not the best of books to pick as the second one, considering its long, arduous and not very relevant to us due to its liberal-idealist perspective

Yeah, recommending that was a mistake on my part as Proudhon isn't relevant to current anarchists, who significantly broke with Proudhon by the time Bakunin was the face of anarchism.

>>111119

While Bakunin is under read to an unfortunate extent, not enough of his short work has been translated to english and the more relevant things are pretty long. Malatesta has some good and short stuff and is also under read, so initially I'd gravitate towards his work.

>>111121

This and Stirner's critics should be read by anyone before they say spook.


 No.111130

How about some Kropotkin? I’ve read the Conquest of Bread but wouldn’t mind doing it again. I haven’t read anything else by him


 No.111131

>>111130

ignore shitposting flag


 No.111137

Anti-civilization reading list (in order):

Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord,

Future Primitive by John Zerzan,

Elements of Refusal by John Zerzan,

Running on Emptiness by John Zerzan,

Against His-Story, Against Leviathan! by Fredy Perlman,

Walden; or, Life in the Woods by Henry David Thoreau,

❥ other works by John Zerzan (especially the ones on postmodernism and symbolic culture),

❥ to laugh at, Ted Kaczynski's works (preferably Technological Slavery).


 No.111145

>>111137

>Society of the Spectacle

How is that anti-civ?

I've been meaning to read Against His-story… for a long time now, if you are doing that I'll join.


 No.111146

>>111145

I read 4 chapters and that's it… it's a tad bit too long (and I have little time), though it's actually very very interesting and beautifully written. Fredy Perlman sure knows how to write.

As to Society of the Spectacle, it's a critique of mediation, which I treat as an introduction to the rather extremist and experimental branches of civilization critique (critique of language, art, etc.)


 No.111147


 No.111157

File: 48126bc4adb1db6⋯.pdf (3.64 MB, Capitalist Realism_ Is The….pdf)

I just finished Mark Fisher's Capitalist Realism. It's about 70 pages and it takes less than two hours to read. I liked it and I think there is a lot to discuss from it. Especially cause it touches on some issues that are discussed here, like mental illness, postmodernism, liberalism, etc.


 No.111178

File: 7aed05c51f82d8c⋯.jpg (101.27 KB, 960x960, 1:1, 14264105_143302916123882_7….jpg)

>>111111

Checked. Also here's Bookchin on the study group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd73MYOBV-k


 No.111187

>To this end I think we need to revive the /leftpol/ reading group,

I remember this, isn't this just rereading basic literature?


 No.111197

>>111111

Agreed, except let's not waste time on anarchist or other utopian texts and just stick to the scientifically relevant stuff. I'd propose some pamphlets by Marx/Engels ("Value Price and Profit", "Critique of the Gotha Programme", "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific", "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State", …) as well as Lenin's main texts. Perhaps some more challenging stuff like Gramsci and Althusser would be interesting.


 No.111198

>>111111

i second a revival of the reading group.

>>111118

that was me. don't worry about finished notes, sometimes unfinished notes are interesting too. its not a big deal either way since i currently dont have plans to read proudhon.

>>111157

I second this. Something short would be a good text to begin with.


 No.111201

>>111157

This seems really interesting actually, it coud definitely provoke some relevant discussions. Thirded


 No.111204

File: 1980fccc46aaa06⋯.jpg (53.17 KB, 716x960, 179:240, bbc eu referendum.jpg)

Reading is hard though :(


 No.111206

>>111204

Oi, you got a license for that TV mate?


 No.111219

OP here, I figure for the starting list we need introductory and core texts for anarchism while for marxism I'm going by the logic of "read Marx (and Engles) not Marxists" and relatively short for the initial offerings. To that end I've got

Value Price and Profit + Wage Labor and Capital + Critique of the Gotha Program (short pamplets/speeches but important for understanding Marx)

The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon

Socialism: Utopian and Scientific

What is Anarchism?

At the Cafe

God and the State

Feel free to add more suggestions. I did not include Capital because it is long, but it should be read sometime in the future.

>>111130

He's alright, but Mutual Aid or The State is probably a better read than Conquest if Bread, if only because the bread book has been memed about to the point that it is the first choice people would go to. Something to keep in mind with Kropotkin that a substantial amount of his work is concerned about how a revolutionary society would manage itself in his immediate time, as he seemingly believed the revolution was right around the corner. This isn't bad in itself, but some of what he says isn't necessarily applicable to our present circumstances. Also wikipedia has a link to a list of his pamphlets across various libraries that make decent short reads, that's something most anons could do on their own with maybe 10 minutes each.

>>111157

It's been a while since I've read it and Zero books are often of dubious quality, but fuck it why not.

>>111204

It is, but it's a lot like working out in that after you incorporate it into a routine it gets much easier. If you're having issues just start with 30 minutes a day, don't worry about understanding everything like a theory wizard at first just make sure you read.


 No.111236

File: d99b772f7ab939e⋯.jpg (291.1 KB, 700x891, 700:891, 48f46f6a7f78006c214da4fe40….jpg)

Just because it is called a book club, you don't have to limit yourselves to actual books. Bakunin has lots of fragments translated that are well worth a read but are not found in any books. For example, the following is a nice read that is worth discussing: https://www.libertarian-labyrinth.org/bakunin-library/god-and-the-state-continuation/

I would be up to reading anything though, as long as there's someone to discuss it with.


 No.111259

Reading books is the substitutes for theory.

Reading books is the opposite of theory.


 No.111270

File: 9ad0eb80331bf79⋯.jpg (1.83 MB, 2576x1932, 4:3, 20181127_082929.jpg)

You should read this tiny book, whoever you are. Or find the pdf if it suits you best.

An account from a Holocaust survivor and psychologist. On suffering and self-determination

"Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl


 No.111306

File: 3dfd9b84b998904⋯.jpg (8.46 KB, 300x300, 1:1, really makes you get.jpg)

File: 4da188244522c47⋯.png (290.86 KB, 684x695, 684:695, book club tiers.png)

>>111111 (checked)

What about having two things at once - one book and one pamphlet? That way there's different reading levels. We'd cycle through pamphlets faster but since that stuff is for newfags people would move on to the bigger texts.

Spitballing here: what if we make a list of pamphlets and put those on rotation, say 1 per week? While those are rotating we can also have the current book going through, say, 1 chapter per week. Then when that book is done or near done we can do a poll to see what book to do next. If people want to change what pamphlets to have in rotation we can vote whether to add or remove individual ones.

The examples in the pic are jokes.


 No.111317

>>111270

>Viktor Frankl

No thanks. Suggestion discarded.


 No.111374

File: 9f8a558ea433870⋯.png (460.94 KB, 1147x645, 1147:645, Jimmy Dore - Towards a New….png)

>>111128

> not enough of his short work has been translated to english

What? Why?

>Malatesta has some good and short stuff and is also under read

What would you recommend to start with? I liked what I read from Guérin's No Gods No Masters.

>>111197

>>>/tankypol/

What does everyone think of this Cockshott book?


 No.111386

>>111374

>What?

There's a substantial amount of Bakunin's work that isn't translated or hasn't survived the decades. In addition there's not many secondary sources that are good.

>Why?

There was no anarchist equivalent of the USSR's institutes that vigorously translated every bit of Marx they could they find, so to get it translated and published would either require profit motive or someone capable of translation having a passion. The former doesn't exist because the translation costs and anarchists pirate everything anyways, while the latter requires the qualities of skill, interest, endurance, and free time that is very rare to find.

>>111236

I agree, I just said book club because it sounds nicer than reading group.


 No.111555

File: a9d368b8388634a⋯.jpg (5.98 KB, 168x300, 14:25, download (1).jpg)

Alright I'd like to start by Sunday. We'll be doing the works listed here initially >>111219 starting with some short Marx to get us freshed up on capitalism. So start reading Value Price and Profit + Wage Labor and Capital + Critique of the Gotha Program by Sunday and we'll discuss it over the next week.


 No.111557

File: fc53f14eaa57d3c⋯.pdf (218.49 KB, Marx - Critique of the Got….pdf)

File: 5a6c136f003ab39⋯.pdf (521.89 KB, Marx - Value, Price, and P….pdf)

File: cfa609fd479a363⋯.pdf (221.02 KB, Marx - Wage Labor and Capi….pdf)

>>111555

>>111219

Here are copies for the lazy. These are good to read now and then because they contain useful arguments to hit liberals with. I'm still waiting for someone to own Jordan Peterson by quoting Critique of the Gotha Programme making the same basic arguments about "equality of outcome" that he does, thinking he's owning Marx.


 No.111558

We should read Bordiga.


 No.111564

>>111555

uh why don't we like, let the group decide what it wants to read rather than following a list you pulled out of your butt?


 No.111565

>>111557

Kermit the Fraud is never going to get in such a debate.

>>111564

I didn't see any poll or other voting mechanism and wanted to get started on some basic/fundamental reading.


 No.111568

>>111555

Is vinterflamma the hottest girl on left twitter? Who are the others?


 No.111570

>>111565

It's always these same three texts by Marx, it's so fucking boring.


 No.111573

>>111570

Solicitations are open my nigga, suggest what you want to read.


 No.111581

>>111573

>>111570

>>111565

Here's a poal.me that you can add custom options to. Let's pick the top, I dunno, dozen? If someone wants to change/remove/swap/add they can post about it. I added a handful of shit already.

https://poal.me/k0qsjx


 No.111582

File: 74206f27ef12974⋯.jpg (130.65 KB, 1024x537, 1024:537, chadneoluddite.jpg)


 No.111584

File: 6e05a96645113e1⋯.jpg (214.5 KB, 1200x1200, 1:1, 1515707951488.jpg)

>>111111

What does /leftpol/ think of Anti-Tech Revolution: Why and How? Also checked.


 No.111585

>>111582

Well it's short. IMO if we have a "basic" or "entry level" list the texts should be under 100 pages. Maybe even combine shorter ones into a single session like >>111555 with the three basic Marx books.


 No.111587

File: 7294228bfa5af6f⋯.jpg (282.61 KB, 936x1280, 117:160, serveimage(8).jpg)

I added Mark Fisher - Capitalist Realism to the poll. I suggested it here

>>111157. It's a contemporary work that talks about some of the issues that pertain to us ans what we discuss on /leftpol/. People can read Marx in their free time. What's the point of 'discussing' Marx when most of the things we'll talk about can be looked up in a Marx companion book or has been talked about on /marx/.

I love Mutual Aid and the rest of Kropotkin but I think we should stop discussing 120+ year old works. Read them, by all means, but if we're gonna have a book club we should discuss contemporary leftist works.


 No.111588

File: af4ff0877dcb49f⋯.png (121.99 KB, 600x450, 4:3, 1425088148956.png)

>>111581

Looks like each user only gets 1 addition and I wasted mine on the Unabomber. If people want to add some but can't we can always make a new poll though.


 No.111597

>>111587

>What's the point of 'discussing' Marx when most of the things we'll talk about can be looked up in a Marx companion book or has been talked about on /marx/.

Many anons haven't read them while /marx/ is slow and is predominantly ML/Dengist.

>I love Mutual Aid and the rest of Kropotkin but I think we should stop discussing 120+ year old works. Read them, by all means, but if we're gonna have a book club we should discuss contemporary leftist works.

I think we should do both, given that how those century old works are the basis on which our movement is built on an understanding of such, even if only to analyze what doesn't work or apply to us, is vital to understanding our current predicament.


 No.111600

>>111597

Well, it's a book club, not a study group.


 No.111604

>>111600

Let me expand on this. I think the point of a book club shouldn't be to read the works directly to 'learn', but to read stuff that uses those concepts to talk about other things so as to make the reader then go look into those concepts further, or read about those concepts directly.

To me, that is the difference between a book club and a study group.


 No.111656

bump

https://poal.me/k0qsjx

Current submissions by votes

>Critique of the Gotha Programme

>God and the State

>Malatesta - Anarchy

>Wage Labor and Capital

>Value, Price and Profit

>Society of the Spectacle

>Capitalist Realism

>The Reproduction of Daily Life

>The Truth About Primitive Life: A Critique of Anarchoprimitivism


 No.111885

>>111600

>>111604

I don't think there's much difference between a book club and study group anon, but if you want to read something besides the same Marx texts please reccomend some stuff and we'll go for it. If I'm being honest I mostly included those because I don't think many anons have read/understood them and because if more than half the recommendations were by anarchists/libcoms certain people would throw a fit.


 No.111896

>>111885

I did. I'm the one suggesting Capitalist Realism.


 No.111898

>>111656

The top 4 (all with 4 votes)

>Critique of the Gotha Programme

>God and the State

>Malatesta - Anarchy

>Capitalist Realism

I'd be fine if OP picked any of the above.


 No.111934

>>111898

I think we should leave it up to a vote, I want this to be a group by the readers and for the readers. Having thought about what >>111604 >>111896 said, I think we should go for God and the State or Capitalist Realism for the first entry. In addition I think we need to make a new /leftpol/ core reading list so any newcomers to the board/socialism can have a decent entry into classic works concerning the common ideologies of the socialist movement.


 No.111950

I changed my vote to the Gotha Program to break the tie. When do we end the poll?


 No.111958

>>111950

For a regular poll for the next text, probably end it whenever we're supposed to have read the previous one by. If we're supposed to read a book by Sunday then that's when the poll closes. For this one I don't know how many votes we're gonna get. Critique of the Gotha Programme is short anyway and it's not like the first one has to be perfect. More important to get going. We can always change the process later.

>>111934

>In addition I think we need to make a new /leftpol/ core reading list so any newcomers to the board/socialism can have a decent entry into classic works concerning the common ideologies of the socialist movement.

I agree. Like I suggested here >>111306 I think we should have a couple lists for different reading levels. Some good standard short works to get people started, some longer core works, and then some lesser known stuff to expand our theory. The shorter stuff is also good for us to start with to get people in and to figure out the process.


 No.111995

>>111582

For one thing, Kaczynski fiddles with sources in that essay and is explicitly anti-tech so he’ll go long cheating ways to “prove” his point.

For another, Kaczynski doesn’t exactly prove technology is bad, he just wraps it around in weird nonexistent shit like the power process or whatever.

Zerzan, on the other hand provides great critique of civilization and many other things using coherent, well-sourced arguments. Kaczynski’s critique of anarcho-primitivism resorts to:

>quote sources about sedentary groups instead of hunter gatherers

>doesn’t understand basic concepts of anarcho primitivism so just screams “muh work”


 No.111996

niggerfaggot


 No.112295

File: 04f1f15d34c0014⋯.jpg (689.49 KB, 1310x1300, 131:130, 04f1f15d34c0014977ee53733d….jpg)

File: b4301cf9b4d20b2⋯.png (292.7 KB, 1000x2000, 1:2, Anarchist Reading List.png)

Found these lists. Can we build a reading list from these?


 No.112305

>>111995

>he just wraps it around in weird nonexistent shit like the power process or whatever

What makes you think the power process is nonexistent?


 No.112312

I'm gonna call the poll >>111656 tomorrow around 5 PM central burger time.

>>112295

Yeah, but I think a lot needs to be cut out and reorganized.


 No.112315

>>112312

Oh no doubt it needs reorganization. I just thought it might help with our lack of suggestions.

I've started God and the State, will probably be finished by then (taking a lot of notes). I'm actively looking for things we can use for discussion and suggest everyone else do the same too. E.g. how has modern secularism changed the relationship between God and State - how do Bakunin's ideas apply today?


 No.112415

>>112305

There is no empirical evidence of its existance, aka Ted is making up shit in his schizo mind.

You don't need to make up shit to explain that work is alienating. You just plain don't.


 No.112460

>>112315

>how do Bakunin's ideas apply today?

They don't. There is no religion any more. The real religion is Capitalism, belief in the free market and the infallibility/naturalness/self-evidence/justice of the principle of exchange. Belief that Capitalism is the final stage of evolution of Human society, that is the real religion. That is what people need to be disarmed of, no one believes in God anymore, not really.


 No.112533

>>112460

lol

You should visit flyover country USA

My grandma and aunt unironically believe CBD oil is satanic and that Jesus sends them messages through Fox Nation


 No.112573

>>112460

>The real religion is Capitalism,

I agree, so apply his criticism of religion, of the vague Absolute to the belief in markets. If you had read the book you'd understand that he wasn't only talking about God as specifically envisioned by the Church and in fact he predicted that if He went away something else would replace him.


 No.112631

>>112460

Maybe you should actually read it.


 No.112637

>>112631

I'm not opposed to the idea.


 No.112640

File: fa8e7a9ca038b6c⋯.png (731.33 KB, 640x640, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>>112637

Just to the action?


 No.112644

Alright, so the poll should be closed.

https://poal.me/k0qsjx

Top result with 6 votes in God and the State by Bakunin.

Start posting suggestions for the next poll so we can start the next poll. Here's >>112295 a sizeable list as a starting point. Once we have a big enough number of suggestions I'll make a poll.


 No.112835

>>112644

How should we time this?

- vote for text

- read for a week, discuss

- new vote


 No.112840

To avoid cluttering up this thread with specific discussions, I made a thread for the first book here: >>112838

We can do this with each book or text, and I will archive them at the end.


 No.112841

>>112835

I think we should have a week for every hundred pages or so of a text, we discuss on Sundays. For new texts we should have a poll the week before the reading period, and have it be a list of what anons reccomend in the thread along with open submissions.

>>112840

Thanks anon.


 No.112906

>>112835

I'd say once we have a list to vote on, we end one poll and start the next at the same time, start discussing one text and start reading the next at the same time. All one day like Sunday. That way we do a regular smooth transition. We can start reading as soon as the poll closes.

>>112840

Good idea. We should keep it to one thread for longer books unless we get to the post/bump limit.


 No.114345

Since I figure everyone will be done with God and the State by Sunday, we should start getting a poll together to vote on the next text and call it on 12/21/2018. I think the runner up, Capitalist Realism, should be included and any suggestions anons have would be welcome.


 No.114347

File: e208d43ad5e74b2⋯.pdf (162.02 KB, petr-kropotkin-the-state-i….pdf)

I recommend Kropotkin's "The State: Its Historic Role". It's about 55 pages.


 No.114356

>>114345

OK I'll here's a list and other anons can suggest additions/removals

<God and the State

<Capitalist Realism

<The State: Its Historic Role

<Malatesta - Anarchy

<Critique of the Gotha Programme

<Berkman - What is Anarchism?

<The Reproduction of Daily Life

<Engels - Principles of Communism

Should we include some very short texts like Theses on Feuerbach? Maybe throw a bunch together one week.

>>114347

That pdf is only 37 pages.


 No.114359

>>114356

Sounds good to me.


 No.115050

Bumperino to remind everyone the poll opens on Monday and to vote. If you've finished God and the State make sure to discuss it in the thread for it here >>112838


 No.115058

>>115050

I'll make the poll same as before and put a link in both threads.


 No.115097

>>114356

>That pdf is only 37 pages.

Oh shit. I have the Freedom Books edition from the 60s. When I get back home from Christmas holidays I will scan it and upload it. If the anarchist library has a 37pg/incomplete version that means the new newest edition isn't online. But it will be!


 No.115114

Poll for next book

https://poal.me/hp67hg


 No.115127

File: 50a90df6c20728c⋯.jpg (31.34 KB, 278x400, 139:200, and forgive them their deb….jpg)

Anyone managed to get ahold of Michael Hudson's new book yet? I'm really excited to read this one.


 No.115312

people sure like to vote for some old-ass texts man i tell u wut


 No.115317

>>115312

New stuff is just starting to get written again. There was a great big dead zone of leftist theory during the Cold War. On the red side of things, there was Mao's little red book and the occasional revolutionary's memoir, and on the CIA-funded side there were the students of the Frankfurters and post-marxist intellectual wankers. Neither the Soviets nor the Americans were particularly interested in having any more class-based analysis of society.


 No.115326

>>115317

I would really like to find a copy of Michael Harrington's Socialism: Past and Future online. I've been reading the first chapter and it's really good. He apparently was dying when he wrote it and wanted to stay alive just long enough to finish.


 No.115333

>>115312

The polls let you add options if you have some newer texts. Last I checked Capitalist Realism was near the top.


 No.115774

One more day to vote, Capitalist Realism is in the lead so we may get to read the only book muke ever finished.


 No.115976

bump..

.when does poll end?


 No.115982

>>115976

Today around 5pm Pacific burger time


 No.116094

Whelp it's official, we're reading Capitalist Realism. So get ready to enjoy the best known work of the vampire castle and suicide man as well as the only thing that transformed no book muke into one book muke. I don't have a pdf on me, so if any anons have it that would be preferable to giving a hack like Doug Lain money.


 No.116095

File: 48126bc4adb1db6⋯.pdf (3.64 MB, Fisher, Mark - Capitalist ….pdf)

File: de2216a674d8326⋯.pdf (84.7 KB, Fisher, Mark - Exiting the….pdf)

>>116094

Got it. Vampire Castle as a bonus too. IMO we should try to include a PDF of the text in the OP of the discussion thread.

Reply to this post with suggestions for more so we can start the next poll soon and vote while we read.

<God and the State

<Capitalist Realism

<The State: Its Historic Role

<Malatesta - Anarchy

<Critique of the Gotha Programme

<Berkman - What is Anarchism?

<The Reproduction of Daily Life

<Engels - Principles of Communism


 No.116096

>>116095

>Got it. Vampire Castle as a bonus too. IMO we should try to include a PDF of the text in the OP of the discussion thread.

That was done in the last thread and is good for a standard procedure. No reason not to.

>Reply to this post with suggestions for more so we can start the next poll soon and vote while we read.

I think Baboons - To The Zoo should always be included as a joke option. Other than that though I'm not sure, so far we've done a classic anarchist text and a pop-socialist one, from there I think reading up on Platformist Anarchism or Council Communism would fit the general ideology of the board but there's a lot of interesting shit out there from obscure theory to training manuals that would greatly benefit the users of this board. For my contribution put down Lenin as Philosopher, an interesting text from the less memed about leftcom that takes aim at some sacred cows.


 No.116112

>>116096

>I think Baboons - To The Zoo should always be included as a joke option.

Well the poll should always allow people to add options, but this is fine too. Kaczynski is also a good in joke.

>For my contribution put down Lenin as Philosopher

OK. It's a short list for now. Hopefully we'll actually need to expand it from reading.

We could have multiple lists. One for essentials, one for obscure theory, one for training manuals, etc.


 No.116124

File: 4d8da440a1df314⋯.jpg (41.88 KB, 600x402, 100:67, 1407579551483.jpg)

Ovid's Metamorphoses

<Translation: Rolfe Humphries

The Four Ages [Just the Golden Age here]

The Golden Age was first, a time that cherished

Of its own will, justice and right; no law,

No punishment, was called for; fearfulness

Was quite unknown, and the bronze tablets held

No legal threatening; no suppliant throng

Studied a judge’s face; there were no judges,

There did not need to be. Trees had not yet

Been cut and hollowed, to visit other shores.

Men were content at home, and had no towns

With moats and walls around them; and no trumpets

Blared out alarums; things like swords and helmets

Had not been heard of. No one needed soldiers.

People were unaggressive, and unanxious;

The years went by in peace. And Earth, untroubled,

Unharried by hoe or plowshare, brought forth all

That men had need for, and those men were happy

Gathering berries from the mountainsides,

Cherries, or blackcaps, and the edible acorns.

Spring was forever, with a west wind blowing

Softly across the flowers no man had planted,

And Earth, unplowed, brought forth rich grain; the field,

Unfallowed, whitened with wheat, and there were rivers

Of milk, and rivers of honey, and golden nectar

Dripped from the dark-green oak-trees.

Thought better of making a separate thread for this. Here seemed appropriate enough. Happy Saturnalia, leftpol


 No.116133

>>116124

>Paganshit

>Classicalism

No thanks, even the smug doesn't save the post.


 No.116136

>>116094

It's a shit book though


 No.116142

Capitalist Realism thread here: >>116141


 No.116144

>>116136

Then don't read it. No one is going to force you to read anything, this is a book club for autistic communists not a cult.


 No.116155

>>116144

What about autistic anarchists?


 No.116158

File: 8ab4f4652a259b6⋯.jpg (54.36 KB, 600x620, 30:31, 8ab4f4652a259b6d8942e98d2a….jpg)

>>116155

Ancaps?


 No.116161

>>116155

Anarchists are largely communists from the platformists to the insurrectionists, the ones who aren't are some snowflake like anprims or crypto-liberals. The latter group around here is maybe one anprim and the socdem who refuses to remove the ancom flag, the communist anarchist describes the majority of anarchists who have posted here and on /leftypol/ before it went to shit. I'm an anarchist communist myself and I don't think we shouldn't let certain autists lay sole claim to communism, especially considering we've been talking about it for as long as they have and many of them seem willing to abandon communism for edgy social democracy.


 No.116183

File: f92c64b9c5836ea⋯.jpg (151.52 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, mpv-shot0170.jpg)

>>116161

I'm an anarcho-communist myself. I certainly do not feel included when somebody speaks about communists and nobody really thinks of us when they do. This whole play on words, that we are somehow included in the term "communists" even though nobody actually thinks of us when it is evoked, just a trick by Marxists to monopolize the struggle for themselves. Even today, if you ask people who are the anti-capitalists, they won't say us, they will say communists. People don't know that we exist and conveniently forgetting about us while preaching about left unity is the Marxist way to make sure that it remains so.


 No.116189

>>116183

I'm a little confused as to why you believe ancom and Marxism are incompatible. Do you think all Marxists are ML or MLM or something?

There are DemSoc Marxists, ffs


 No.116193

File: 68e4092a02e1de7⋯.png (558.58 KB, 522x906, 87:151, f0d39dd5f2029ba869412e3290….png)

>>116189

Because they are incompatible? Marxists want a state, yes, even "DemSoc" Marxists. If you want to abolish it, you are an anarchist, yes, even if you base your theory in great part on Marx's contributions, like, for example, Bakunin did. I am not against working with Marxists, but I do not want them to appropriate anti-capitalism as something exclusive to them either, because as an anarchist I obviously do not believe them to be actually capable of abolishing capitalism. That's why I think it is important to call them out on excluding us with their stupid wordplays that keeps them relevant in the imagination of people despite them being utterly irrelevant outside of online message boards for a while now.


 No.116195

>>116193

I personally know plenty of anarchists who are Marxists. Nowhere in Marx is the creation of a state the goal. Even Lenin had the explicit goal of abolishing the state and replacing it with a minimal workers state intended to whither, a goal that obviously did not come to fruition.

I agree that you can be anticapitalist and not a Marxist, but the vast majority of anticapitalists are Marxists because Marx made the best critique to date of capitalism. It's kind of his calling card. There is no incompatibility between anarchism and Marxism, and when you claim that there is you're abandoning one of the best tools in the leftist theory toolbox to ML(M)s simply because they said so.


 No.116200

File: 90e23e80f44e6c4⋯.png (368.39 KB, 800x800, 1:1, Frogged.png)

>>116183

I get where you are coming from, but as I see it it is necessary for us to reclaim communism and force ourselves into view of anti-capitalism. Most of the folks who would exclude us from "communist" are irrelevant to class struggle because what they do rarely extends from social media echo chambers where they can harvest likes, views, or whatever strokes their e-dicks. As such I think carving out a place for ourselves is going to have to be done and instead of relying on "left unity" folks to give us what they expect from us we should seize the term "communist" for our own use.

>>116189

>I'm a little confused as to why you believe ancom and Marxism are incompatible. Do you think all Marxists are ML or MLM or something?

Looking back to the first international the split was over whether to work within the state (as reformists involved in social democratic parties) as Marx advocated for or to work outside of it as Bakunin did with his emphasis on syndicalism and direct action. Given that Marx's "I am not a Marxist" quote was about denying the importance of electoralism while anarchists have consistently rejected such, I think to claim that they are compatible would be to expand "Marxism" further than it's already stretched existence or to gravely misunderstand the strategies and ontology of anarchism. It has less to do with unsavory deviations of Leninism so much as it does with the historical and relevant differences between Marxism(as what Marx advocated for) and Anarchism.

>There are DemSoc Marxists, ffs

DemSoc is a meme and the majority of those I've seen describe themselves as such are either Leninists scared of Stalin or socdems who want to look more radical than they are.

>>116195

>I personally know plenty of anarchists who are Marxists

My nigga, if you include anyone who has read Marx and is influenced by him as being a Marxist, then you have stretched the label far too thin to be useful. While much of what the man wrote is useful a look into history shows him as being far too willing to pursue electoralism as a strategy which in most cases has lead to the betrayal of the proletariat by their supposed representatives to serve the interests of capital, such as the party Engles spent his money floating becoming the rosa-killers we meme about today.


 No.116201

>>111219

I bought 18th Brumaire, is it a good read? Already read four or five Marx/Engels pamphlets and two Lenin books (State&Revolution and the one on self-determination of nations).


 No.116203

>>116201

It's aight but you should be ashamed of buying what you can get for free.


 No.116205

>>116203

Meh, reading paper books is way superior to reading online or even printing it out, and it was like 6 or 7 bucks.


 No.116232

File: 634eb88f2d32bec⋯.jpg (22.14 KB, 269x320, 269:320, 269px-Commie_smurf.jpg)

>>116133

>paganshit

Not an adherent to any gods, I just like the connections of our ancient past to the present.

The Roman slaves got the week off while the modern wage-slave has to work harder. The dream of a socialist future resembling the Golden Age.

The revolutionary period referred back to this period too. The old Phrygian/Pileus cap became known as the liberty cap, because the Romans used to give freed slaves these caps.

I sense a hint of sarcasm in the final lines

"…and there were rivers

Of milk, and rivers of honey…"

>>116205

I like my home library too, anon, but what's superior is knowledge retention and praxis. Still, old books are cheap these days.

No fite.


 No.116235

>>116232

>Not an adherent to any gods, I just like the connections of our ancient past to the present.

Akin to /pol/ for misappropriation of the past.

The Roman slaves got the week off while the modern wage-slave has to work harder. The dream of a socialist future resembling the Golden Age.

Akin to neo feudalists.


 No.116260

>>116235

I'm well aware of their sickly levels of nostalgia.

They of course only pine for the authoritarian near past and not our original free(er) ways of life.

>The golden age is akin to neo-feudalism

Naw man. It's a myth

My propaganda can be used to peel off the freedom loving rightwing from the staunch bootlicker


 No.116262

>>116260

>Naw man. It's a myth

The Golden Age if that's what you meant is a regurgitation of a regurgitation of reality that influenced global culture and not just western culture. This is what I meant when I said

>Akin to /pol/ for misappropriation of the past.


 No.116266

>>116262

Its not misappropriation of the past, its a myth, the original utopia. Ovid seems to know what anarchists know.


 No.116267

>>116266

Alright I guess you're not wrong from that aspect but on a whole other aspect calling it a myth seems like too much and your original post using a Carpeaux sculpture make me stand by my point.


 No.116269

>>116267

The hat that symbolizes freedom?

Let us misappropriate the reactionary memes.


 No.116495

Poll: Book Club's 3rd Book

https://poal.me/jcvhw0

>Approval voting (check off everything you approve)

>Write-in enabled

<God and the State

<Capitalist Realism

<The State: Its Historic Role

<Malatesta - Anarchy

<Critique of the Gotha Programme

<Berkman - What is Anarchism?

<The Reproduction of Daily Life

<Engels - Principles of Communism

<Baboons: To the Zoo

<Irigaray - The Sex Which is not One (feminist work as requested in this >>116464 post)

We'll go with the top result as of January 1st whenever my hangover wears off, unless we can't find a free source to read it.


 No.116505


 No.116508

>>116505

I didn't see it in response to my post asking for suggestions so I missed it. My bad. I added it.


 No.116529

>>116495

Does anyone have a copy of Baboons: To the Zoo? Looks like we are reading that one next.


 No.117815

>>116495

Are you still hangover?


 No.117819

>>117815

cirrhosis has claimed yet another promising young man


 No.117836

Whelp looks like Society of the Spectacle just edged out Anarchy (which is a short pamphlet I reccomend to everyone) so looks like we're going to read Debord's magnum opus. Hopefully we'll check out the rest of Debord and give Vaneigem a read in the future.


 No.117839

Been reading Ernst Niekisch and his philosophical division against Hitler

Might jump into Mao and Pol Pot soon

Also might be diving headfirst into the world of Hegel if I don't kill myself mentally whilst doing it


 No.117884

File: 45ad3f345cfad2b⋯.pdf (545.83 KB, Debord, Guy - The Society ….pdf)

>>117815

Nah I'm good now at 9:45 pm the next day.

>>117819

I don't drink regularly enough for it to adversely affect my long-term health, mostly just holidays. It'd have to be alcohol poisoning, which considering my liver likes to go on strike and say "no, you get rid of this alcohol," is a real danger.

>>117836

Thanks for stepping up. That's the kind of thing anarchy needs. Here's the pdf.


 No.117898

>>117839

>Also might be diving headfirst into the world of Hegel if I don't kill myself mentally whilst doing it

Hegel isn't extremely hard just extremely fucking boring by today's standards.


 No.117962

>>117884

Are we using this translation? I prefer the one by Knabb.


 No.117969

>>117898

That sounds like the opposite of Capital–difficult but engrossing.


 No.117970

>>117969

Really? I didn't find Capital hard to read but shit the linens made me want to shoot myself.


 No.117972

>>117962

You have a copy? Is it online? Having multiple translations is probably good. If people read different versions we could compare/contrast.


 No.117973

>>117972

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/guy-debord-the-society-of-the-spectacle

It's also on the translator's website. Did you even search?


 No.117974

File: 2a88779ede93c71⋯.jpg (39.15 KB, 380x515, 76:103, 0140445684.jpg)

Does anybody know where I can find the audio book for Capital volume 1, 4th edition?


 No.117990

>>117973

>>117972

Assuming we're all fluent in English, reading the same version would be preferable to reading a myriad of translations. Libcom or Anarchist Library would be best to look, I know that libcom also has Debord's Comments on Society of the Spectacle and I'd be surprised if the AL did not also have it.


 No.118090

>>117898

He made a lot of sense to me at least


 No.118432

>>118059

Works on my machine


 No.118478

>>111111 (checked, oh a thousand times checked)

Really, more reading and theorising is what's required?!

Isn't that what the pic related is exactly decrying?


 No.118480

File: 987a1557b01cb6c⋯.png (33.44 KB, 149x175, 149:175, lol-kek-marx-sm.png)

>>117974

>audio book

Genuine question … are you serious?


 No.118481

>>118480

It would be an awesome thing to have.


 No.118482

>>118478

The pic is decrying inaction, not education. Given that it is virtually impossible to organize on a chan I think a book club/reading group is the best use of the format's capabilities rather than trying to do the Detroit Commune 2.0. A resource to organize in the workplace or in your neighborhood would be welcome but it's currently out of my capabilities to draft one up, and "join the IWW/socialist party/whatever organization lol" isn't particularly good advice.


 No.118731

File: 398878e28d5ac67⋯.jpg (76.08 KB, 1242x1186, 621:593, trs.jpg)

Is it bad that while reading Debord I already know exactly what he's talking about because his anti consumerist argument has been used constantly and I've experienced it myself, to the point of being able to identify where people had problems with what he wrote in regards to ignoring art in a capitalist society.


 No.118732


 No.119900

So I guess we need a new poll for next week. I'm at work and can't make one unfortunately, can the manarchist anon or someone handle it?


 No.119994


 No.120033

>>119994

Thanks fam. Forgot it was time already.


 No.120637

File: 04bf66e82d2792a⋯.png (72.62 KB, 260x341, 260:341, Malatesta.png)

>>119994

Do we start reading next Monday?


 No.120666

>>120637

Unless someone needs more time for Debord, Monday sounds fine. In the Debord thread an anon mentioned allotting time based on the size and difficulty of whatever we picked to read, which is a pretty good idea moving forward, especially if we end up choosing a longer work to read at some point. We can always change the timeframe, but it's helpful to set some goals on time like one or two weeks for short works and three or four weeks for longer works. For something quite a bit longer, we could even alot >4 weeks.

Most of the book clubs I've been in meet once or twice a month and read 1-2 books per month, but they've all been in person groups.


 No.120847

>>120666

Anarchy is pretty short, it should be fine.


 No.120901

>>120637

We'll call it tomorrow. Looks like Anarchy and What is Anarchism are tied, given Anarchy being short I figure we could read both but I want other anons to weigh in.


 No.120909

File: 72ff5fd0372c2b0⋯.pdf (596.2 KB, Berkman, Alexander - What ….pdf)

File: f67636ea46d8549⋯.pdf (118.72 KB, Malatesta - Anarchy.pdf)


 No.120911

>>120909

I assume so, it's on libcom and other places as that but afaik it's the same text.

https://libcom.org/library/what-is-anarchism-alexander-berkman


 No.121121

Whelp looks like Anarchy just edged out what is (communist) anarchism so tomorrow let's start reading. Since it's very short do you think we should have a poll for next week open tomorrow?


 No.121122

NEW POLL

https://poal.me/bgnv37

Closes next Sunday the 27th 6PM EST

Read Anarchy by then. >>120909 Read both if you want. I'm not your boss.

>>121121

Got it.


 No.121164

>>121122

>Baboons - To the Zoo

Is that a shitpost or an obscure ultraleft book?


 No.121169

>>121164

running joke >>116096


 No.121386

How the fuck do we have 32 votes when barely 2 person contributed to the previous thread?


 No.121402

>>121386

I'm 90% sure someone's using bots on the poll, I doubt there are even 100+ people on the board per day.


 No.121417

>>121402

You can vote for more than one entry.


 No.121418

File: ecf3741a718c451⋯.jpg (175.4 KB, 498x1493, 498:1493, demonic screeeching.jpg)

>>121417

But why would I.

It's one book per week you bunch of niggers.


 No.121420

>>121386

We have more lurkers than posters.


 No.121423

>>121418

Well, if multiple books interest you, you can vote for them in the hope that one of them get the first place.


 No.121425

>>121423

Alright. :^)


 No.121453

>>121418

It's called approval voting. If you check off every option you approve, then the final results displays the approval rating of each entry. It's a simple and intuitive system and the winner is the option that most people approve of, by design.


 No.121504

>>121420

Previous polls had less than 10 votes on the most popular choice. The current one has 35?


 No.121505

>>121504

It could be getting botted, but if it picks a worthwhile book does that really matter? Maybe more people voted this time.


 No.121510

>>121505

>Worthwhile book

>It's okay if I agree with it.


 No.121511

>>121510

Who said that? I meant compared to some bullshit someone would use bots to get to the top. The point of the polls is just to pick something without having to waste time discussing.


 No.121513

>>121511

But that's not good due to susceptibility, I literally voted for a shitpost book and the rest botted Bakunin, because we need to read more Bakunin of course.

Although I'll generally read anything the club picks because I need something to do on the computer while I eat my pre workout food so I guess it's fine.


 No.121514

>>121513

If some bullshit gets botted to the top we can just ignore that entry and go with the first non-bullshit book. And if that doesn't dissuade a botter we can figure out another system when that becomes necessary. or if you want you can come up with one now so it's ready if we need it.


 No.121515

>>121514

Votes by posts using time stamps outdoors in order to prove the poster is human, participates in the threads, and is valid on deciding the next book to read, but like I said whatever, if some autist wants us to read Bakunin that badly so be it. The system needs no fixing for now.


 No.121516

>>121515

Fug I forgot, and outdoors in order to prove they are in different areas/climates.


 No.121517

>>121516

>>121515

What's to stop someone using a VPN and taking pics in multiple locations?


 No.121518

>>121517

No one's going to travel to a different climate just for a photo in order to subvert democracy with false votes.

Not for this anyway.

Wait you know what no. You're right, there are people autistic enough on this board to do that.

Shit.


 No.121521

>>121518

There are often different environments pretty close together, and there might be multiple people in similar biomes.


 No.121577

>>121402

>>121504

>>121513

>>121515

>>121516

>>121518

>won't someone please think of the sanctity of the ballot box?!

I've got an even better idea. We can just charge people money to vote on the book. A poll tax if you will.

We can also have the voter take a selfie along with the tax to make sure they aren't paying twice or are nonwhite, a woman, or insufficiently hetero.


 No.122192

Reminder to anyone interested to vote before the poll gets called on Sunday.


 No.122651

Last chance to vote buckos.


 No.122808

>>121122

Calling it.

Kropotkin - The State: Its Historic Role

New Poll

https://poal.me/i76jhc

Closes Sunday Feb 3rd ~6PM EST


 No.122811

File: e208d43ad5e74b2⋯.pdf (162.02 KB, Kropotkin - The State Its ….pdf)

File: 1f623ba0b9490b0⋯.pdf (3.15 MB, Kropotkin - The State Its ….pdf)


 No.123354

>>122811

No separate thread?


 No.123366

>>123354

I usually make them when I get home but I've been busy with my exgf. I'll make a thread when I get home today if no other anons have.


 No.123408

>>123354

I try to post sources ITT also so it's easier to find stuff, in case someone wants to catch up they can look here. Eventually the book threads will start 404ing.


 No.123862

Vote in the latest poll >>122808


 No.124126

Last call for voting.


 No.124170

It looks like we're going to need a tiebreaker, so someone vote soon.

Also I'm wondering about maybe coming up with a new list instead of just recycling the runner ups from previous weeks. What are other anon's thoughts on that?


 No.124191

If I want to read Das Kapital for the first time but do not speak German, would Russian translation be better or English one ? and what translator / era


 No.124198

>>124170

The polls all allow for custom options. Anybody with suggestions should feel free to post. I was only culling stuff from the list for either getting next to no votes or being an obvious joke.


 No.124239

>>124198

I'm aware of the custom options, but I'm thinking of dropping a few (generally lower performing) options and adding new stuff. For instance there's a new book called "Emergence and Anarchism" I found on libcom that perhspas should bumb off options that get low votes, like Principles of Communism or The Sex Which Is Not One.


 No.124240

>>124239

*perhaps should bump off

I'm fucked up.


 No.124241

File: 72ff5fd0372c2b0⋯.pdf (596.2 KB, Berkman, Alexander - What ….pdf)

>>122808

Poll's Closed

Book is What is (Communist) Anarchism? by Alexander Berkman. Next poll TBD. Here's a PDF I already have.

>>124239

Few ways to do this off the top of my head

>remove options that get below a certain threshold (e.g. 1/3 of the highest vote)

>have a maximum for starting options, let custom options bump off less popular books

>have a maximum for starting options, replace bottom [number] of options (e.g. bottom 5) with obligatory new ones


 No.124242

>>124241

The first one sounds prone to abuse, like the poll getting swarmed and To the Zoo bumping everything else off. The third option sounds best for the poll itself. However I think for starting options we should keep it to 5-10 and mix it up every poll, to give books that some anons don't know about more exposure.


 No.126683

File: a3f565907d3aa90⋯.jpg (35.78 KB, 552x738, 92:123, 150fa7dbfcc8556769d2416882….jpg)

Shall we vote for another text? I don't want the book club to die.


 No.126713

>>111137

You can laugh all you want considered he btfo'd the theory that humanity was utopian without technology


 No.126925

>>126683

Let's do it. I say we get something from Paul Mattick on there.


 No.126932

>>126683

>>126925

Post some suggestions ITT. I'll throw up a poll in a bit with the new stuff at the top.


 No.126933

>>126925

>>126932

Here's a list of writings by Mattick.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/

What about doing his "What is Communism?" for comparison to What is Anarchism?. Synthesizing the different views on questions like that is valuable IMO.


 No.126935

>>126933

Sounds good.


 No.126942

>>126932

Oscar Wilde - The Soul of Man Under Socialism

OJTR - Militancy: highest stage of alienation

Monsieur Dupont - Nihilist Communism

Albert Einstein - Why Socialism?


 No.126950

>>126932

Fredy Perlman - The Reproduction of Daily Life


 No.126951

>>126942

>Albert Einstein

No, do not put him on here, I do not want that. We may as well be Russel Brand's books on here if we put him on this list.


 No.126957

>>126951

Nobody cares about you.


 No.126958

File: e2cc1641f776f3b⋯.png (28.22 KB, 429x459, 143:153, rlbmzfatja3z.png)

>>126951

>comparing Albert Einstein to Russel Brand


 No.126960

>>126957

You cared enough to reply and sage the thread.

>I'm saging because I consider you off topic.

Well I'm discussing the thread topic so I'm not off topic,and the thread needs bumping and doesn't warrant a sage. You clearly care enough to get asshurt at me.

>>126958

There are more links between them than you think.


 No.126962

>>126960

>Well I'm discussing the thread topic so I'm not off topic,and the thread needs bumping and doesn't warrant a sage

When bumping a thread it should be bumped with content that's relevant or interesting. The board's not fast enough for the sages to hurt this thread anyway.

>There are more links between them than you think.

There are lots of links between you and a chimp too.


 No.126963

>>126962

>When bumping a thread it should be bumped with content that's relevant or interesting

So you're consequently admitting that your posts are neither relevant nor interesting, and you're right.

>There are lots of links between you and a chimp too.

Yes there are, in that same sense there are a lot of links between Brand and Einstein even if it was an over exaggeration.


 No.126964

>>126932

Here, let me add something so the preview on the front page shows suggestions are open, instead of this derailing bullshit.

>The Scientific Status of the Labor Theory of Value (W. Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell)

>Principles of Communism (Engels)

>Critique of Max's Value Theory (Bryce Francis Edwards)


 No.126979


 No.127038

Here's an important rec:

https://libcom.org/library/social-anarchism--lifestyle-anarchism-murray-bookchin

A few more:

Fraser - Fortunes of Feminism

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/socialism-and-liberalism-articles-of-conciliation

D&G - Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia

Reich - The Mass Psychology of Fascism

Sure, some of these are actual books, but I believe in you guys. We can definitely read things longer than 100 pages if we actually try.


 No.127193

New Poll: Book #7

https://poal.me/gyk1rm

+ You can vote for multiple options (approval voting)

+ You can add custom choices

I'll call it on Sunday 24 Feb around 6PM EST


 No.127705

bumpo


 No.127947

Bamp

Something that's bothered me with the (online) left is that they use certain terms incorrectly. Liberalism doesn't refer to ideology that reinforces capitalism and the bourgeoisie state but anything "socially progressive", idealist just means "shit I don't like it" instead of the belief ideas create reality. Something should be done about this and I wonder if we should work on creating a reading list to educate folks in the hopes they stop saying dumb shit. Any anons here have advice?


 No.127958

>>127947

I agree. Lots of people just kind of passively adopt the jargon without trying to understand the concrete meanings of the words. This flies in most politics today (by design), so it's not necessarily obvious to people that the words mean very specific things.

Some kind of glossary for socialists would be good. Maybe have a definition followed by a short essay for each important concept, fleshing it out. Ideally it could be put it into some easily digestible format for mass consumption like tweets or short youtube videos.


 No.127997

>>127958

I think it'd be easy enough to do a glossary, but atm I don't really trust any youtuber or left twitter personality to share it. Realistically it'd just be a resource for this board, which would help the brainlets not butcher terms.


 No.128119

>>127947

It's the FULLCOMMUNISM influence

Tankies are braindead


 No.128347

Only 3 days left to vote for something that actually matters >>127193


 No.128556

Voting is open >>127193

https://poal.me/gyk1rm

Closes Sunday


 No.128609

When will we start reading?


 No.128639

>>128609

Soon as the next book is picked, innit?


 No.128656

>>128609

Monday


 No.128878

bump


 No.128884

https://www.marxists.org/subject/left-wing/icc/1934/10/communism.htm

"What is communism?"

And since it was a tie here's the other text:

https://www.amazon.com/Around-Zoo-Baboon-Meish-Goldish-ebook/dp/B00E8OKEXW

"Babouins-Au Zoo" (Note: The English translation butchered the title.)

No PDF can be found either.


 No.128885

>>128884

Holy fuck it's a real book


 No.128891

>>128884

> Length: 16 pages

> Age Level: 6 - 6

> Grade Level: 1 - 1

Seems about right.


 No.128905

File: 64bdcb0d4b97e6e⋯.png (30.44 KB, 657x223, 657:223, BABOON GANG.png)

>>128891

>>128884

>~$8USD

For the book club!


 No.128909

>>128905

You can get the pdf for a dollar fam.


 No.128910

>>128909

Those are sold by Amazon's digital bookstore so Bezos gets more money from it.

I want a physical one to read as a joke.


 No.128916

>>128556

So unless there's a sudden upset or people really want to read Baboons and get the PDF, looks like it's "What is communism?"


 No.129080

Aight comrades lets read!


 No.129082

File: 4f0b5bc297619c0⋯.png (14.51 KB, 500x250, 2:1, Oekaki.png)

>reading books

No thanks


 No.129098


 No.129271

>>129098

Thanks Comrade


 No.129334

This text seems short enough, so how about a poll without the baboon book?


 No.129428

File: bbe96b7540734cf⋯.png (768.72 KB, 568x779, 568:779, baboon.PNG)

>>129334

Here : https://poal.me/75spc

Closes Sunday.

We'll have to read a lot before trying to grasp the hard hitting anti-domestication theory of the baboon book.


 No.129712


 No.130043

Last call for voting


 No.130176


 No.130195

not to derail but i think a film club would be more accessible, as long as it's films that people actually want to watch, not fucking battleship potemkin or whatever


 No.130203

>>130195

>not fucking battleship potemkin or whatever

>>>/tv/

>>>/v/

>>>/reddit/

If Battleship Potemkin was a turn off for you you clearly don't enjoy film, you enjoy flicks, because almost all good movies are more complex than Potemkin was. Of course Potemkin isn't a very good film but I assume you thought it was too much for you or found it boring.


 No.130221

File: 4ba7e1921372d47⋯.jpg (23.4 KB, 290x324, 145:162, shiggy samurai.jpg)

>>130195

>Hey guys let's have a lefty film club

>but not watch boring old movies that were influential or some shit

>let's watch Marvel's The Avengers 4: Infinity War 2: Endgame


 No.130226

File: 314aaf4b134d50b⋯.jpeg (245.03 KB, 1200x922, 600:461, DibO8nXVAAAlOFw.jpeg)

>>130195

OP here, I was the guy who started the first film club and the self-improvement thread. Both got very little participation with the film club falling apart cuz no one watches and after the first six months the self-improvement just being a cheerful anime poster encouraging people and me announcing my progress and tfwnogf issues. The book club is seemingly the only thing that routinely gets interest, and it gets dwarfed by muh women, muh bernie, and muh socialist state threads. If you start one good luck and I'll probably be there, but you should be ready to see it get drowned out because anons would rather argue about dumb shit than improve or enjoy themselves.


 No.130242

>>130176

That some good shit


 No.130243


 No.130264

>>130203

all movies from before the 1970s are shit, change my mind

>>130221

tbh i also hate capeshit

>>130226

>If you start one

sounds hard, can't someone else do it


 No.130287

File: 9f899759044c14c⋯.jpg (218.53 KB, 1125x1500, 3:4, mmmHMMM.jpg)

>>130264

>all movies from before the 1970s are shit, change my mind

Hi Quentin. Did Mark invite you here too? How's Sam? You ever gonna get off your ass and make Part 3 or what?


 No.130311

>>130287

Tarantino may be a fag whose best film was over two decades ago, but he clearly likes shit from before the 70's despite his obvious nostalgia for that era.


 No.130321

File: 98475bb25108f1e⋯.jpg (277.31 KB, 719x1112, 719:1112, the-good-the-bad-and-the-u….jpg)

File: 418c6629f33830f⋯.jpg (104.58 KB, 500x771, 500:771, Queimada-992553477-large.jpg)

File: 572f264f02a56f9⋯.jpg (185.76 KB, 989x1503, 989:1503, hustler1961-4.jpg)

File: 438e086f8cbe344⋯.jpg (256 KB, 1052x770, 526:385, batman_1966.jpg)

File: 6f62ff713debdb3⋯.jpg (36.31 KB, 588x331, 588:331, dr_strangelove_t.jpg)

>>130264

>all movies from before the 1970s are shit, change my mind


 No.130325

File: bdcfa9d2690f59c⋯.png (246.42 KB, 995x902, 995:902, ClipboardImage.png)

>>130311

I think they meant this Quentin.


 No.130326

>>130325

Maybe, I just saw the feet and assumed.


 No.130361

>>130321

ok fair enough, dr strangelove is the exception to the rule


 No.130367

>>130264

>making a thread and a poll is hard


 No.130384

>>130325

>>130326

No I mean't Tarantino, the black female feet are a dead give away since he has a fetish for black people and feet.


 No.130392

>>130384

Tarantino loves old movies and film history though. To an autistic degree. That's even more what he's known for than feet and jungle fever.


 No.130477

>>130367

what am i, superman?


 No.131135

Despite being short, the 8th book is quite dense, is it okay if we extend for another week?


 No.131137

>>131135

Yeah, shit's busy irl so finding time to read his hard. So far the text is breddy cool though.


 No.131189

>>131135

What? I thought we were reading the reproduction of the daily life of 20 pages?


 No.131191

>>131189

We are reading Homo Sacer


 No.131193

>>131189

If you wanna do a poll for a new book that's cool anon.


 No.131636

So since there's no poll I think we should read Critique of the Gotha Programme and Bakunin's critique of the German social democratic program (written 5 years before Marx's critique) and compare them. Both are relatively short and it's a more interesting exercise than discussing the former text by itself.


 No.131791

Bumping. Is >>131636 good with everyone or do you guys want to have a poll?


 No.131818

>>131791

We can have a poll with one of the option being the two short essays anon mentioned.


 No.131897

>>131818

http://poal.me/t8ryg3

Created it, I bundled both critiques together because Bakunin's is maybe a 10-minute read and it's interesting to see how he and Marx addressed the same issues.


 No.131957

I haven't read any of Zizek's works, but it seems like it might be worth the time. I hear a good way to start is `How to Read Lacan' into `Sublime Object of Ideology'. So I propose `How to Read Lacan' to the next poll.


 No.131973

>>131957

Agree!


 No.132033

>>131957

>>131973

Alright. I want to move away from older polls with multiple votes to see how many people actually participate in the polls. I'd also like to keep selection at 4-8 texts and debate itt what to include in the list. What do anons think of this?


 No.132234

>>132033

>Alright. I want to move away from older polls with multiple votes to see how many people actually participate in the polls. I'd also like to keep selection at 4-8 texts and debate itt what to include in the list. What do anons think of this?

I'm new so my opinion clearly doesn't matter on this issue, but seeing as no one else has responded yet I'll go ahead and say I'm fine with this. I'm mostly interested in Cybersocialist, Situationist, & Freudo-Marxist works at present due to how they relate to (late 20th and) 21st century concerns of the `the socialist calculation debate' and the increasingly psychological forms of oppression which stunt class consciousness. I'd be willing to find works and debate their merits: `Towards a New Socialism', `The Revolution of Everyday Life', & `How to Read Lacan' all come to mind as options, but it might be that their are better works in each of these categories, and I'd be very open to alternatives. (of these I've only read `Towards a New Socialism')


 No.132239

>>132234

>I'm new so my opinion clearly doesn't matter on this issue

Purge yourself of such nonsense capitalist ideology, if you're participating then your opinion matters.

>I'd be willing to find works and debate their merits: `Towards a New Socialism', `The Revolution of Everyday Life', & `How to Read Lacan' all come to mind as options, but it might be that their are better works in each of these categories, and I'd be very open to alternatives. (of these I've only read `Towards a New Socialism')

Those are all fine subjects and free texts are preferred. I wish the guy who introduced /leftypol/ to cockshot was still around, but it looks like he made good on his promise to "take his ball home" after all the drama. Just one of many anons I wish were still with us.

Anyways I'll submit the following suggestions

Malatesta - At the Cafe

Bordiga - Doctrine of the Body Possessed by the Devil

Cockshot - TANS

Zizek - How to Read Lacan

Vaneigem - The Revolution of Everyday Life

OJTR - Militancy: Highest Stage of Alienation

We can add more based on what loses in the poll, but I think we should rotate options so the pancake man doesn't stew in last place every poll.


 No.132265

>>132239

>Purge yourself of such nonsense capitalist ideology, if you're participating then your opinion matters.

kek, okay thanks anon.

>Those are all fine subjects and free texts are preferred.

Don't forget about http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ most texts can be gotten for free.

>I wish the guy who introduced /leftypol/ to cockshot was still around, but it looks like he made good on his promise to "take his ball home" after all the drama. Just one of many anons I wish were still with us.

I left /leftypol/ ~2 years ago, the last week has been the first time I've posted since then, so I sort of skipped all that. The community does seem a shadow of its old self, but these things happen, and the persistence of you, news-anon, and others is admirable.

>We can add more based on what loses in the poll, but I think we should rotate options so the pancake man doesn't stew in last place every poll.

I like that list, and it seems like like a good idea to rotate books.


 No.132282

>>132234

I recommend starting with the Situationists so you won't need to waste your time on the other two.


 No.132332

>>132282

>I recommend starting with the Situationists so you won't need to waste your time on the other two.

Care to explain? The Situationist don't solve the socialist calculation problem, and really give very little advice on how society ought to be run beyond through workers councils and that it should be full of playful selection of situations liberated from the passivity enforced by the spectacle. The Freudo-Marxist critique is similar to that of the Situationists, but the difference in nuance results in radically different suggestions.


 No.132337

>>132332

They were hostile to both cybernetics and Lacan (who, by the way, was not Freudian).


 No.132339

File: 1d66dc83b78409e⋯.jpg (32.76 KB, 390x310, 39:31, 1485938271624.jpg)

I just want to read some good recommendations, with people who know their theory well, so I can ask for help when I don't understand something.

I am new to the left, so I just read what the OG lefties recommend.


 No.132346

>>132337

>They were hostile to both cybernetics and Lacan (who, by the way, was not Freudian).

I seem to only remember the brief comment that these are sciences of control. I took this meaning more the modern use of these sciences than a critique of the science themselves. I can't imagine how one would plan a economy without a science of control, even with its slightly dehumanising elements. Freudo-Marxism (as I understand it) is a attempt to better explain the fetishism and alienation of capitalism using the lens of this science of control, so it's not so much even a application of the science for control as commandeering the science for the reverse purpose.


 No.132392

>>132346

Who is going to create a poll it has been almost 2 weeks since the last group reading session I can't create one.


 No.132398

>>132392

It's been up for three days: >>131897


 No.132424

>>132398

Ah, lol didn't see that


 No.132599

>>131897

Calling it, looks like we're reading two critiques of a 19th century German Social Democratic Party. For the next poll I think >>132239 is a decent enough lineup, but if anyone has some suggestions please make them.

Shouldn't be surprised that only 10 anons showed up to vote. Guess that explains why the book club doesn't get spammed with profitfags, red-browns, or incels.


 No.132608

>>132599

PDF or epub files?


 No.132611

>>132608

I just posted links in the thread, >>132604 , when we read Capitalist Realism the document we read from was missing a page so I've preferred to link to libraries that allow anons to download whatever file they prefer themselves.


 No.132710

>>132599

I'm pro-jim profit. I read and I'm also an Incel advocate.


 No.132712

I voted the Insurrection one only because I want to get the PDFs of that. It won't win but I saw it at my book store (which I got banned from)


 No.132713

Would like to see some books related to critiques of Fromm from other Frankfurt school alumni


 No.132722

>>132712

ok I'll bite

Why'd you get b&?


 No.132727

>>132712

It's available at the usual places (you could always just ask in the >>1128):

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/comite-invisible-the-coming-insurrection

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=365E1C1BB3C5B8B01E1C00D2EF185C05

>>132713

>Would like to see some books related to critiques of Fromm from other Frankfurt school alumni

That sounds interesting to me, any specific books or essays you have in mind?


 No.132852

Alright, poll for next book club is here http://poal.me/dv5ubc vote lads


 No.132853

>>132265

>I left /leftypol/ ~2 years ago, the last week has been the first time I've posted since then, so I sort of skipped all that. The community does seem a shadow of its old self, but these things happen, and the persistence of you, news-anon, and others is admirable.

Well shucks, getting compared to news-anon is a high honor. It's a damn shame what happened, and I unironically believe that the destruction of old/leftypol/ will be the worst thing to happen to the left online until we start getting censored by the government.

>>132339

That's what the threads are for, but if you have any specific questions ask here, where most of the read anons seem to post.


 No.133129

Vote here my dudes >>132852


 No.133254

>>132853

>It's a damn shame what happened, and I unironically believe that the destruction of old/leftypol/ will be the worst thing to happen to the left online until we start getting censored by the government.

It's pretty rare that I meet any Leftists (excluding social democrats) in the flesh, and other than mailing-lists, forums, and Facebook (the former two not doing so well and the later not being private) this is the only place where linear long-form communication is possible, which seems necessary to have thoughtful conversations. It's pretty tragic what happened.


 No.133260

>>133129

>2019

>believing in electoralism

Haha no, fuck your poll


 No.133264

File: 9096b81e2b7452f⋯.jpg (655.08 KB, 1580x1538, 790:769, 1421975511783.jpg)

>>133260

>voting what book to read is electoralism


 No.133265

>>133264

It completely is. It’s fascism you fucking brainlet. Your authoritarian rule of the majority doesn’t bind me and never will. This is /leftypol/ garbage


 No.133267

>It completely is. It's fascism you fucking brainlet. Your authoritarian rule of the majority doesn't bind me and never will. This is /leftypol/ garbage

I know I shouldn't respond to this, but it's a direct vote on a non-binding book to read, it's as far from authoritarian as you can possibly get. You are welcome to not participate, although you are encouraged to read a book of some sort, unless you're apposed to bookism of course.


 No.133268

Comrades the posters above me are correct! This is fascism we must read whichever book we want then spam the thread about it with no consistent discussion! Only then will it be true communism!


 No.133270

>>133267

Your “encouragement” and “welcoming” are forms of subtle authority in themselves. Even this can escalate into fascism, it’s a slippery slope from this seemingly benign idea to full on state-worship. fuck books and fuck moderators


 No.133278

File: 37998feeea75b3b⋯.jpg (96.05 KB, 768x1024, 3:4, CORBDEM.jpg)

>>133260

Electoralism refers to participation of socialists in liberal democracy, either through party or campaigning for a politician. The book polls are closer to workers' councils in political terms or a small group of friends deciding what movie to watch in practical terms.

>>133265

>It's fascism

There are no calls for class collaboration and opposition to reformist and revolutionary worker's movements.

>authoritarian rule of the majority

There is no hierarchy in place and no powers exerted by anyone involved.

False flagging as a no books anarkkkiddie was old in 2015, get some new material or at least read a wikipedia article on what you're pretending to be.


 No.133507

>>132852

>Alright, poll for next book club is here http://poal.me/dv5ubc vote lads

What happens in the event of a tie? ignoring what the second option is here.


 No.133509

>>133507

Unlike with normal FPTP you can change your choice here.


 No.133524

>>133509

>Unlike with normal FPTP you can change your choice here.

nice


 No.133527

>>132722

looking weird. or talking to myself subconciously.

either that or got metoo'd by a barista lady.


 No.133803

>>132852

Last call buckos


 No.133914

Alright fellas, looks like we're reading Vaneigem next week along with the definitive anti-domestication text Around the Zoo with Baboon. I hope we can handle this stuff.


 No.133953

>>133914

One zookeeper one bullet.

MADE BY BABOON GANG


 No.133967

>>133914

>Alright fellas, looks like we're reading Vaneigem next week along with the definitive anti-domestication text Around the Zoo with Baboon. I hope we can handle this stuff.

I'm looking forward to hearing what folks have to say about `The Revolution of Everyday Life'. I've been meaning to read it for awhile now. If you read `The Society of the Spectacle' and you're iffy on delving into another one of the Situationist International's text I'd encourage you to give this one a try. The writing style is about as far from Guy Debord's as you can get, it's playful and poetic from what I've seen. His opening lines to the section supporting the claim that "No Illusion, sacred or deconsecrate, […] can hide the poverty of our daily actions any longer." are as follows:

"The history of our times calls to mind those Walt Disney characters who rush madly over the edge of a cliff without seeing it, so that the power of their imagination keeps them suspended in mid-air; but as soon as they look down and see where they are, they fall."

"Contemporary thought, like Bosustov's heroes, can no longer rest on its own delusions. What used to hold it up, today brings it down. It rushes full tilt in front of the reality that will crush it: the reality that is lived every day."


 No.133968

current reads:

In the middle of these:

The History Of Political Philosophy - Leo Strauss and other writers

Emil Cioran - Fall Into Time

Nick Land - The Dark Enlightenment

to read soon:

Nick Land - Meltdown (its an essay but it counts)

how fucked am I?


 No.133971

>>133968

No one gives a fuck what you’re reading. Back to /leftypol/


 No.133974

>>133971

banned there. and that's nice, faggot.


 No.133975

deep throat moderators some more


 No.133976

>>133974

Back to reddit then, liberal


 No.134009

>>133968

>current reads: [snip]

>how fucked am I?

I haven't read any of these so I can't comment, but you should consider making a `What are you reading?' thread we could use more literate posts. Even cancerous literacy is better than illiteracy.


 No.135018

Bump with new thread >>134537

I've been busy with work and shit and haven't had time to read so I think we'll wait a while until next poll if that's lright with anons, say in a week or two. I'd like to put forward Rudolf Rocker's Nationalism and Culture for next poll. What do you anons want to read?


 No.136748

Since no one is talking about the baboon book or that situationist text, is everyone ready for another read?


 No.136852

>>136748

Any other leftcomms or deleonist style socialists worth a try? I already know Bordiga (he's kinda of a sperg) and Camatte (actually worth reading) and DeLeon ofc but who else?

What about anti-protestant work ethic Christ comms?


 No.136887

Fuck books, get rid of this thread and your liberal garbage

(rood)

 No.136911

>>136852

Pancake, Mattick, Dauve, Endnotes, and Theorie Communiste seem to get pushed by "leftcoms", but I'd argue leftcom is a useless descriptor given the range of tendencies it covers on the internet. DeLeon was a fag and the IWW was proven to be right, electoralism is fake and gay.

>>136887

>reading is liberalism

And here I thought fuckwits couldn't make "liberal" even more meaningless.


 No.136953

File: 3674d379983f01a⋯.pdf (1.56 MB, The Economics of Feasible ….pdf)

READ THIS FAGGOTS

Tankies? Triggered.

Leftcoms? Triggered.

Anarchists? Triggered.

Cockshott retards? Triggered.

Venezuela and Chile under Allende supporters? Triggered.

Actual socialists who earnestly desire to make a transitional plan towards socialism in the here and now? This book covers everything and was written by a professor who specialized in studying soviet economics.


 No.136955

>>136887

I agree. Bring back oral tradition. Face to face communication is much more effective than conjuring up voices in your head by looking at symbols, like some kind of schizophrenic.


 No.136956

>>136955

There is no such thing as schizophrenia. Mental illness is a civilizational disease, it can only exist in contrast to the domesticated mind, the supreme model of regulated behaviour. What is called today insanity is nothing else but the free spirit untouched by civilization: savage, playful and full of life.


 No.136960

>>136955

It also saves us from the abyss of endless discussions about what the quran/marx/the torah/the founding fathers etc etc akschuaclly meant, allowing us to say what we think, instead of what we think some long dead or non-existent person/being was trying to convey.

>>136956

Mental illness is all too often over-rationality, in which everything must exist in an everlasting equilibrium of perfect sense reducible to the singularity of a master-signifier. To not have this need is to be arbitrary, aka the ideological blue screen of death.


 No.136985

>>136956

Mental illness confirmed for fake and gay


 No.136986

>>136911

Yeah he had ok end goals though, his praxis sucked though.

As for leftcomm, looking for ones in the same league as Camatte, no Monsieur Dupont, though, Dude is depressing.


 No.137024

>>136986

Let's read Against His-Story, Against Leviathan! then?


 No.137064

>>136748

>Since no one is talking about the baboon book or that situationist text, is

>everyone ready for another read?

I got caught up in my other studies and removed my hosts.deny which was fine

for awhile, but I ended up reading articles rather than books. I should be able

to devote some time today to reading Vaneigem and finish in the next few days.


 No.137285

>>137064

I'm sorry to let you down book anon, to leave you alone, but I just can't be

here. I lack the necessary self control to be both here and productive. I'll

finish this book and many others, but I can't do it with the distractions of

the internet. I have to return to my hermitage.


 No.140181

Should we bring this back or just let it die? I've been looking to crack open Nationalism and Culture by Rudolf Rocker which is something I think this board would benefit from reading.


 No.140226

>>137024

Sounds like feminist garbage I'll pass


 No.140227

>>140181

Rudolf was too much of a Chomsky fanboy for me to take him seriously.


 No.140229

>>140227

Rudolf died 4 years before Chomsky was known outside of academic circles, unless he was a fan of linguistics I doubt Rocker wasn't aware of who Chomsky was.


 No.140245

There's no point in this, even when people read the texts there was no actual discussion of it.




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